REALLY???? So it's got nothing whatsoever to do with him then.....

[Brian A.]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18383804

So that's what's wrong. How very convenient.

[Egg on Leggs]

The problem he is alluding to is that UK commerce is so tied to the EU that it cannot change whilst they are holding it back with their prevarication. Unfortunately membership of the EU restricts our ability t trade with the rest of he world to some extent.

Whilst I am a fan of the concept of the EU, I am certainly not of this cobbled together, fundamentally morally and financially corrupt version. When we get the chance to vote at a referendum I would vote for out.

[Shakey]

It's not the EU that is morally and financially corrupt, it is the hole of western society. It isn't going to get any better unless we start to realise that we cannot go on like this forever.

We should start by doing away with Sunday trading - not for any religious reason but simply because everybody deserves at least one whole day off per week to be with and do things with their family.

It enrages me that the UK and US governments expect Germany to bail everybody out just because they still have some money left. I hear they are now going to tax wealthy OAPs. How immoral is that! We all worth our balls off to try to enjoy some quality time between retirement and death and now the feckers are after that too.

The whole feckin world is run by accountants and it SUCKS!

[PAD]

Originally Posted by Brian A.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18383804

So that's what's wrong. How very convenient.

Indeed. They can't use blaming New Labour (i.e. a conservative party created to become Thatcher's natural successor after the Conservative party proved themselves incapable) as that's timed out by a good while, so they're looking for a new scapegoat.

Pitiful.

These people are in charge

Originally Posted by Egg on Leggs

The problem he is alluding to is that UK commerce is so tied to the EU that it cannot change whilst they are holding it back with their prevarication. Unfortunately membership of the EU restricts our ability t trade with the rest of he world to some extent.

Whilst I am a fan of the concept of the EU, I am certainly not of this cobbled together, fundamentally morally and financially corrupt version. When we get the chance to vote at a referendum I would vote for out.

Not sure what you mean when you say EU membership restricts trade with the rest of the world, Egg? I'd be interested to hear that argument developed a bit

I wouldn't call myself a fan of the EU concept. I can see benefits were it genuinely designed to benefit the people, communities and society of member nations and not big business via undemocratic control structures imposed by vested interests but, as it is, I'd be putting my X in the same box as you.

[Egg on Leggs]

Originally Posted by PAD

Not sure what you mean when you say EU membership restricts trade with the rest of the world, Egg? I'd be interested to hear that argument developed a bit

Part of the trade agreements within the EU favours EU partners, you may remember when we had to stop buying New Zealand Lamb and other dairy products to favour the "Common Market". This particular element occured abut 10 years ago IIRC.

[PAD]

No, I don't recall that. Possibly because I was in Ireland then and very much absorbed with more immediate, errr, local difficulties!

But I'm pretty sure that there are bilateral trade agreements in place between NZ and the EU.

[Egg on Leggs]

My memory seems to be wrong on the time but the principal point is there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_diversion

[PAD]

Yes, indeed! That seems a very long time ago, but I've got your drift now

[FTM]

As pointed out on the politics show today, in 2008 Gordon Brown blamed the EU for the recession and the Tories blamed Labours domestic policies. Today Cameron is blaming the EU and Labour are blaming the Tories domestic policies.

Nothing changes.

[roadblock]

It's,


well,




it's as if his wife told him to say it.











Sorry if this post seems disrespectfull the the honerable member of parlement, but I believe that we deserve better leadership (or in Georges case, I'll expand that to, we need leadership, not some namby pamby fec wit).

[bigviffer]

Obviously not Tory voters then eh?

On a more serious note, Microsoft is setting it's new pricing strategy on the Euro which means a 29% jump in the price of their software for some in the UK. That is just one effect of the Euro upon us and there is nothing Osbourne of that bigger idiot Balls can do about it.

As has been said above we are heavily interconnected with the Euro whether we like it or not and it's ups and downs affect most of what we do. Unfortunately that doesn't make for good press and the fact remains that the Tony B and more importantly Gordon B Club well and truly screwed up. Like it or not that's the truth and unless you want your great grandchildren to be paying for this countries debts something must be done and done NOW.

We don't have a good manufacturing industry in the UK (even though we have some of the best skilled people) because we are not competitive in either cost or efficiency. Companies didn't invest in themselves and their workforces for decades and now can't afford it. The training budgets are often the first to be cut with staff 'encouraged' to reskill themselves in their own time 'for the good of the Company' regardless of which industry they are in. The UK now (and wrongly in my view) relies on the Services Industry and those services are not being bought, or are being shifted 'off-shore' for the same reasons.

All you complainants seem to know what's wrong, so let's see you coming up with proper constructive ways out of it eh? Spending won't work, tax reductions won't work, and pay cuts won't work. People won't work extra hours for nothing for much longer. Some of you talk like you know the answers so let's hear em? No doubt the Finance World will be banging on your doors to offer you a job.

Some of the folks in my Team have had no pay changes, or 1 small, far less than inflation, rise in 8 years. Now a lot of them are wondering whether they'll have a job soon - including me.

I don't much like what's going on either, but let's see some of the armchair Prime Ministers and Chancellors on here come up with some proper suggestions that don't mean we become another 'Greece' or 'Spain', and then get yourself into Parliament rather than slagging everyone off because everyone else does it!

What we're all seeing is a 'rebalancing' of the markets after years of overspending (which I'll bet a fair number here did too) with some on credit. Those bills have fallen due. Time to pay!

I don't trust anything from any politicians! As has been said before...."How do you know a Politician is lying? A: Whenever they speak!". Every blasted party is slagging the other ones off, yet I'll bet that the situation would remain the same if the keys to Nos10 & 11 Downing Street were held by Labour - or any other Party.

[PAD]

Originally Posted by bigviffer

Obviously not Tory voters then eh?

By default, yes, in the case of any who voted for mainstream parties.

Originally Posted by bigviffer

On a more serious note, Microsoft is setting it's new pricing strategy on the Euro which means a 29% jump in the price of their software for some in the UK. That is just one effect of the Euro upon us and there is nothing Osbourne of that bigger idiot Balls can do about it.

No. THAT is the effect of exchange rate fluctuations. Please tell me of a time in recent history that this country has not had to contend with international market fluctuations. If you don't like this instance, perhaps you would rather we had joined the Eurozone?

Originally Posted by bigviffer

...the fact remains that the Tony B and more importantly Gordon B Club well and truly screwed up. Like it or not that's the truth and unless you want your great grandchildren to be paying for this countries debts something must be done and done NOW.

It's interesting that you persist with this focus on New Labour. You are aware that this party was created expressly to carry on Thatcherite policies, following the implosion of The Conservative Party, aren't you? Margaret Thatcher claims New Labour as her greatest achievement. This whole mess has it's roots going back to 1979 and beyond.

Originally Posted by bigviffer

We don't have a good manufacturing industry in the UK (even though we have some of the best skilled people) because we are not competitive in either cost or efficiency.

Why not? Because...

Originally Posted by bigviffer

...Companies didn't invest in themselves and their workforces for decades and now can't afford it.

Unlike in other nations which looked to the long term. For example, Mazda in Japan.

Originally Posted by bigviffer

The training budgets are often the first to be cut with staff 'encouraged' to reskill themselves in their own time 'for the good of the Company' regardless of which industry they are in. The UK now (and wrongly in my view) relies on the Services Industry and those services are not being bought, or are being shifted 'off-shore' for the same reasons.

And these are the result of the policies of...?

You know who and you know what!!!

Originally Posted by bigviffer

All you complainants seem to know what's wrong, so let's see you coming up with proper constructive ways out of it eh? Spending won't work,

Capital expenditure on projects to make this country function more effectively can have the long term benefit of making us more competitive and the short term benefit of keeping people in employment and stimulating the economy, rather than adding to the current welfare burden and keeping us at a disadvantage. Example? Infrastructure projects to push large scale freight onto rail with smaller scale road distribution from local hubs at rail freight yards. No nett loss of employment and a much more efficient and effective road network with considerably reduced maintenance costs.

Originally Posted by bigviffer

tax reductions won't work

So why the obsession with them?

Originally Posted by bigviffer

and pay cuts won't work.

So explain why this government is pressing ahead with them. It's an opportunistic ploy for ideological reasons and nothing whatever to do with this recession.
Example? Make public services more attractive for private enterprises to take over and then watch the as the new owners of your service provision increase the costs and your council taxes rise year on year to produce and increase profits and dividends.

Ohyes! Dat's gross Capitalism, folks. Good ole Tory fare that you keep on votin' for.

[quote=bigviffer;1376463People won't work extra hours for nothing for much longer.[/QUOTE]

Oh yes they bloody well will if they keep on voting for the status quo, because all the time they do so they give permission for it, the establishment keeps on taking you up here and the rich keep on laughing all the way to the bank while babies starve the world over and people live in dire straits a lot closer to home than you would ever feel comfortable with if you knew.

Originally Posted by bigviffer

Some of you talk like you know the answers so let's hear em?

That, my friend, would require a whole new section, if you want a manifesto. Let me just say this:

Investigate "Globalisation" and learn what the implications of it are for the ordinary, decent, caring people of this world. Then look at "Internationalism" and do the same. Then compare the two and draw some conclusions for yourself, rather than relying on me, the media, politicians, or anyone else's belief system.

Originally Posted by bigviffer

No doubt the Finance World will be banging on your doors to offer you a job.

I really, really, REALLY doubt it!

Originally Posted by bigviffer

Some of the folks in my Team have had no pay changes, or 1 small, far less than inflation, rise in 8 years. Now a lot of them are wondering whether they'll have a job soon - including me.

So DO SOMETHING! you really do NOT have to put up with this.

Originally Posted by bigviffer

I don't much like what's going on either, but let's see some of the armchair Prime Ministers and Chancellors on here come up with some proper suggestions that don't mean we become another 'Greece' or 'Spain',

I think I've covered that with my comment about the whole new section.

Originally Posted by bigviffer

...and then get yourself into Parliament rather than slagging everyone off because everyone else does it!

No... YOU get someone into parliament who will genuinely work in your true, long term interest and that of future generations, make sure they know who they work for, keep them honest and give them a brutal reminder if they fall out of line.

Originally Posted by bigviffer

What we're all seeing is a 'rebalancing' of the markets after years of overspending (which I'll bet a fair number here did too) with some on credit. Those bills have fallen due. Time to pay!

No! What we are seeing is an unseemly scramble to cover up the gross folly of a capitalist system that cannot be sustained, to grab as much of the pie back as possible regardless of who else suffers and to subject the witless to it all over again and again and again until they wake up or we are all FUBAR.

Originally Posted by bigviffer

I don't trust anything from any politicians! As has been said before...."How do you know a Politician is lying? A: Whenever they speak!". Every blasted party is slagging the other ones off, yet I'll bet that the situation would remain the same if the keys to Nos10 & 11 Downing Street were held by Labour - or any other Party.

Quite. Now consider whether setting New Labour voters against Tory voters or trying to make a distinction between people with mildly differing political opinions on a motorcycle forum has any substance whatsoever.

As for me? Well, I'd say that gear driven cams are one of the greatest advances in human achievement and red un's are faster!

[Hondougie]

Originally Posted by PAD

Unlike in other nations which looked to the long term. For example, Mazda in Japan.

Capital expenditure on projects to make this country function more effectively can have the long term benefit of making us more competitive and the short term benefit of keeping people in employment and stimulating the economy, rather than adding to the current welfare burden and keeping us at a disadvantage. Example? Infrastructure projects to push large scale freight onto rail with smaller scale road distribution from local hubs at rail freight yards. No nett loss of employment and a much more efficient and effective road network with considerably reduced maintenance costs.


As for me? Well, I'd say that gear driven cams are one of the greatest advances in human achievement and red un's are faster!

Amen to that.

Except ol dat bollox about red. Black ones are faster!

[PAD]

No they're not. Don't be silly.

[Hondougie]

Originally Posted by PAD

No they're not. Don't be silly.

If you follow this thread to the bitter end - and it does drag on a bit - various scientific proofs are developed which put the issue beyond doubt. Black ones are faster.