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View Full Version : Turning an old VFR750 into a race bike.


Plonko
16-11-2006, 16:02
I'm planning to put a race bike together based on a VFR750 to compete in the Bemsee thunderbike series. The series rules allow the following:

Single cylinder, Unlimited displacement
Two stroke, Unlimited displacement
Twin cylinder, air cooled, Unlimited displacement
Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, 3 or less valves per cylinder, Unlimited displacement
Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, 4 valve per cylinder, up to 750cc
Three cylinder, non-fuel injected, up to 1200cc
Four cylinder, air-cooled, up to 1200cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, 1990 to 1992 model year, up to 650cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled (oil or water), pre-1990 model year, up to 860cc
All air-cooled, 2-valve, unlimited displacement

I was thinking the progress of a VFR based pre 1990 750 race bike might be of interest to the club. :dunno: What do you think?

SteveD
16-11-2006, 16:04
What would you be up against? assuming pre-1990 <860cc

Smiffy
16-11-2006, 16:06
What would you be up against?
Hopefully not straw bales or the catch fencing
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)

Plonko
16-11-2006, 16:10
What would you be up against? assuming pre-1990 <860cc
That's true for the 4 cylinder bikes but they're the only ones that have age limits so there is newer stuff as well.

Out there this year were a few SV650s with 700cc big bores, a couple of Buells, Laverdas, some super tuned ZXR400s, an old GSXR750 and a Ducati Sport 1000. It's quite an interesting variety. :)

Bumpkin
16-11-2006, 16:12
Four cylinder, air-cooled, up to 1200cc
No mention of oil cooling, would GSXRs fall into this category?

The early VFRs were well ahead of their time, witness Ron Haslam making a good showing in the Transatlantic Trophy all those year ago on a std. one against all sorts of race preped stuff, admittedly in the wet.

Would be very interested to see how you get on.

Plonko
16-11-2006, 16:15
No mention of oil cooling, would GSXRs fall into this category?

The old oil burners count as liquid cooled so the age limits apply.

gomez
16-11-2006, 16:20
Throw away the engine, frame, suspension and wheels and replace with upgraded items. Keep the VFR decals. Job done :D

gizza
16-11-2006, 16:37
where they still making the rc 30 1n 1990 must be worth a look if you can afford one, one on ebay for 8 grand then you have a good investment for the future

Theoldgit1
16-11-2006, 16:40
looked at this a few years back.


You are up against it mate, you need a catchtank built into the fairing, no-one does a track day fairing for them and the original weighs about 25kg? Realistically you need to lose about 30kg off the bike. The brakes are good enough, just, and the bike handles well enough, but it's mass counts against it.

Tyres can be an issue too, the pre 1990 model wasn't really designed for radial tyres although they do work well, it will be getting hold of a decent grippy set that will cause the bother IMO.

Good luck though.

Jupiter
16-11-2006, 16:54
Just read this thread with some delight - as I have been thinking of turning my VFR 750FJ into a race bike. I wouldn't let the mass be too much of a worry. Brakes can be upgraded (there's probably aftermarket calipers if you search hard enough). There are aftermarket fairing manufacturers. I suppose the race rules are flexible enough to allow wheel and tyre changes too - and perhaps you could even take a complete front end from something else to beef the bike up a bit there at least.

Even on an old VFR. there's quite a bit that can be done with some ingenuity. Yes there are probably better/faster bikes suited to the task, but an old v4 would be FUN :D Check out the USA website with pics of Fred Merkel's VFR750 superbike racer. It wasn't an RC30 either - it was an FG/FH roadbike with some ideas and money thrown at it.....

I would love to race an old VFR - the biggest problem I have is nobody to "crew" for me and I would need someone handy with a decent workshop to look after the bike and help on raceday's. However, if anyone is interested in such a venture for the fun of it, let me know.....

Plonko
16-11-2006, 17:46
The RC30 isn't really an option considering my budget.

As for fairings and catch tanks I reckon with a little bit of tweaking to the brackets and things a fairing for a different bike could fit.

I've also considered grafting a fireblade front end onto it so that will help with the brakes and forks, also I'm looking to possibly do the same at the back and see if I can get a blade swingarm to fit. This will let me use the running gear. It might just work. :)

Binnsy
16-11-2006, 18:35
You might have your work cut out against some '89 GSX-R750's! ;)

Plonko
16-11-2006, 19:01
You might have your work cut out against some '89 GSX-R750's! ;)
The thing is there's a power/weight ratio of 1.8kg/bhp so it should be reasonably easy to make a fairly competitive bike. I was guessing on about 95-100 bhp and around about 180kg should do it. Anyway it'll need a faster rider than me to be truely competitive but I think it'll be worth a go.

Anyway the fact is the V4 will sound the business. I'm going to try to get the exhausts as close to the noise limit as possible :)

Plonko
16-11-2006, 19:34
Anyway I'd want to make sure I was nowhere near the GSXRs with the amount of oil they dump on the track :)

clumsy_geezer
16-11-2006, 21:32
Haven't got a workshop, but wouldn't mind getting my hands dirty and I do take nice action photos.

Plonko
17-11-2006, 13:12
Haven't got a workshop, but wouldn't mind getting my hands dirty and I do take nice action photos.
You can never have too many photographers at a race track :)

I think the dirty hands part is more likely for a while though. It's going to take a good bit of building. :)

imposter
17-11-2006, 13:19
Anyway I'd want to make sure I was nowhere near the GSXRs with the amount of oil they dump on the track :)

Cheeky arse !!! mines not to shabby for poke.

Terry Whomsley
17-11-2006, 13:55
I've also considered grafting a fireblade front end onto it so that will help with the brakes and forks, also I'm looking to possibly do the same at the back and see if I can get a blade swingarm to fit.

I saw an FJ model at the Bulldog a couple of years ago which had been streetfightered with an early blade front end the s/s swingarm off an nc24. It looked quite trick and the owner said he'd bought the bike with front end damage to try and put the engine into an nc24, but had decided it was easier to mod the 750.

Plonko
17-11-2006, 17:03
I saw an FJ model at the Bulldog a couple of years ago which had been streetfightered with an early blade front end the s/s swingarm off an nc24. It looked quite trick and the owner said he'd bought the bike with front end damage to try and put the engine into an nc24, but had decided it was easier to mod the 750.

That's interesting, I have been led to believe it's fairly straightforward to do the front end as the stem is the same and therefore a straight swap. I also though about an NC29 swingarm (because I've got one in the shed) but the shock mounts in a bit of a funny way on those so it might not be possible. Also I want it to have enough room for a 180 section tyre so will have to check that too.

clumsy_geezer
21-11-2006, 21:30
I would love to race an old VFR - the biggest problem I have is nobody to "crew" for me and I would need someone handy with a decent workshop to look after the bike and help on raceday's. However, if anyone is interested in such a venture for the fun of it, let me know.....


Jupiter,
I live near Stafford, don't have a workshop, but don't mind getting my hands dirty, and, as mentioned, take nice action shots...
If I can help a bit let me know.
Clumsy

Steen U
19-08-2008, 09:51
v

saintrommel
07-07-2010, 17:29
I saw a guy with an FG racebike at three sisters a few years ago(most unlikely circuit)for a VFR but he wiped the floor with everyone, very amusing

JasonL
26-10-2010, 12:34
Just joined the forum, Plonko did you ever end up racing a VFR750? Here's the one I currently race in Oz

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/021010_BroadfordPCRA_0364.jpg

Plonko
26-10-2010, 12:41
I haven't. The bike is still sat there waiting to be completed but time and money have put everything on hold.

It's shelved though, not abandoned. :)

Welcome to the site btw.

BruceVFR
26-10-2010, 17:48
Ok so what's the golf handicap down to now?

you cannot have everything!

SO spend some time on the project!:)

You'll never get famous playing golf...I've witnessed your swing,:d::d:but I'll come and watch you on a race track!:cool:
After all i do have the tee shirt!:beer::beer:

mangocrazy
26-10-2010, 19:07
Just joined the forum, Plonko did you ever end up racing a VFR750? Here's the one I currently race in Oz

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/021010_BroadfordPCRA_0364.jpg

That looks very sweet... What have you done to it and how does it go? ANy information very much welcomed.

You might also be interested to know that there is a section of the forum (Classic VFRs) devoted to the RC24 model...

JasonL
26-10-2010, 22:22
It goes pretty well. The motor is stock, it has a K&N filter, jets and a Yoshimura 4 into 1 with a cut down muffler. Ex 80's GSXR 750 Ohlins shock extended for ride height and repsrung, valved etc. Front forks and brakes are off a CBR600F3 and are kitted. Running RS250 Magtek wheels, rear caliper is also F3. KR1-S clip ons, NC24 clocks, lightweight battery, 520 chain and sprockets....that's about it. Doing some work on it over the off-seaon, have NC30 fork lowers to put on which will allow NC30 4 pot calipers to go on it (the F3's are two pot sliders) and contemplating running total loss. may get some cams done and airbox mods. I've got some old race glass to go on it, and I'll be hacking more weight off the bike where I can. Finally found a tyre combo that suits me and the bike, Dunlop Racer Slick front 120/70 Soft and a medium rear Dunlop KR108 165/55.

I mostly run it in what's called New Era here or Period 6, which is jan 83 to end 89 or 90 depending on the club etc. I got sick of getting blown away by FZR1000's on the straight so I bought one but so far I'm still quicker on the VFR except on the faster tracks like Phillip Island. I just like the Honda too much and the FZR still needs a lot more work - its a tank. The RC24 has been ultra-reliable; it had god knows how many miles on it when I put it on the track, I've raced it for near on 4 yrs now and all I've done is adjust the clearances, plugs and oil/filter changes!! Keep the motors stock wherever possible I say. The fuel pump is the only thing that's let me down, which also stopped by previous road-going RC24's over the years too.

Plonko - never too late mate, all good things take time. I didn't start racing until I was 39! Dunno why, just took me that long.

BruceVFR
27-10-2010, 09:42
Plonko was racing,some friends on this site ,ie Budwizer and co saw him at Snetterton and I even found him a dona vfr for this project with a smashed up front,BUT then he took up GOLf!

mangocrazy
27-10-2010, 19:17
It goes pretty well. The motor is stock, it has a K&N filter, jets and a Yoshimura 4 into 1 with a cut down muffler. Ex 80's GSXR 750 Ohlins shock extended for ride height and repsrung, valved etc. Front forks and brakes are off a CBR600F3 and are kitted. Running RS250 Magtek wheels, rear caliper is also F3. KR1-S clip ons, NC24 clocks, lightweight battery, 520 chain and sprockets....that's about it. Doing some work on it over the off-seaon, have NC30 fork lowers to put on which will allow NC30 4 pot calipers to go on it (the F3's are two pot sliders) and contemplating running total loss. may get some cams done and airbox mods. I've got some old race glass to go on it, and I'll be hacking more weight off the bike where I can. Finally found a tyre combo that suits me and the bike, Dunlop Racer Slick front 120/70 Soft and a medium rear Dunlop KR108 165/55.
Ok - so how much of the original bike do you have to keep and how much can you change? My RC24 has RC30 forks grafted on, with 4-pot Brembos on adapter plates. Would that be allowed, for instance? And how much are you allowed to do to the motor? Though as you say, keeping it standard means excellent reliability. I'm interested in the Magtek wheels, that sounds a neat mod. Were those standard fitment on RS250s of the era?
I mostly run it in what's called New Era here or Period 6, which is jan 83 to end 89 or 90 depending on the club etc. I got sick of getting blown away by FZR1000's on the straight so I bought one but so far I'm still quicker on the VFR except on the faster tracks like Phillip Island. I just like the Honda too much and the FZR still needs a lot more work - its a tank. The RC24 has been ultra-reliable; it had god knows how many miles on it when I put it on the track, I've raced it for near on 4 yrs now and all I've done is adjust the clearances, plugs and oil/filter changes!! Keep the motors stock wherever possible I say. The fuel pump is the only thing that's let me down, which also stopped by previous road-going RC24's over the years too.
Yes, my fuel pump failed a few years ago, on the way back from France. I've heard that they can be replaced with Facet solid-state pumps that are MUCH cheaper and probably more reliable.

Lucky bugger, being able to race at PI. If there's one track in the world that I'd love to do a track day on, it's PI...

JasonL
27-10-2010, 23:45
Your modded RC30 front and brembos would be eligible - the basic rule of thumb is if it was available in the period or its visually indistinguishable then its in. Plus engine mods are ok. So far this 80's class has only been run at club level here and each club tended to set up their own rules; the biggest in Oz has been PCRA, you can see the regs under www.postclassicracing.com.au (http://www.postclassicracing.com.au) under class rules tab I think it is, then New Era. However, the class is due to become the next offical historic class in 2011 and we are all waiting to see what the national regs look like. They will likely be a mix of the rules of the day with sensible adjustments to reflect racing an old bike in the present. Plus we hope there will be distinct proddie classes and Superbike/modified classes.

The RS 250 mag wheels were std on the 250 GP bikes of the day, plus NSR250 SP's came out with Magteks as well I understand. My VFR came with CBR 600 std rims initially and the magteks fitted more or less straight in, run the same disc etc. I also had a VFR 400 NC30 at one point and same thing - all interchangeable. Rear was a case of making up spacers. The rear CBR600 rim wasn't all that heavy, the weight savings came mostly from the smaller cush drive.

Yes, Phillip Island. I've only had a brief run there so far, as our one race meet this year was cut short due to a fatality. I qualified the VFR in the wet then ran the FZR (for the first time) in the one dry heat we got in. I'm doing a 6-hr endurance race there in Dec on a mates ZX10 so that will get me more familiar with the place! Despite the size of the place, a lot of race tracks here are twisty and short, (which suits the VFR), and also helps make the Island so much more distinctive.

Club racing is all about finishing. I was never the fastest bike out there but always finished, and that matters more at the end of the year. I've also run it in a Pre Modern class this year which is anything 10yrs and older, so early R1's etc, 929 Fireblades as the best options, but out of 40 odd guys who scored points, only about 12 scored in every heat of every race meet - so as long as you finish every one and not right at the back, you're already in the top 10!!

The Racketeer
31-10-2010, 20:45
Reading your posts JasonL with delight, I am about to enter my FG in the 'forgotten era' class at East fortune next year. I have a many questions i would like to ask you but you have answered many of them in your previous posts. The one main question i would like to ask is this - I will be running my bike completely standard partly cause i have no money and partly because i would not know where to start, so the question is- If you were me and money was tight, but you could change one thing on the bike to prepair for racing what would you change?

(Just for the record i have a CBR600F2 track bike which i have been using at Knockhill which could be used as a doner bike if possible)

JasonL
31-10-2010, 22:46
Excellent news Racketeer, get 'em out there! To answer your question, I'd say suspension. It's the one thing that made the biggest difference of anything I've changed on the bike. However, it also depends a little bit on what you'll be doing - if you're happy just to be running around and not be too serious (ie: chasing lap times and points etc) then you'd probably get away with just basic suspension work. But you never know until you get out there - I ended up taking it far more seriously than I intended! Ground clearance is a problem on these things, which suspension will go a long way to fixing (the back of mine's been raised which helps it turn too; they don't steer the best) so if you get the shock worked, get them to extend it a bit. The FG has 37mm forks of course so yes I'd be running the CBR 41's, which will also allow you a 17 x 3.5. Suggest do a rear CBR wheel conversion too if you can, if nothing else but for wider tyre choice. If it still has the std twin mufflers on (low miles??) then get a higher single can slip on otherwise you'll be grinding them to bits. They are very heavy too. Get as much weight off as you can, I've weighed every bit I took off, there's 12kg of bits and bobs you can get off without much effort, thermo fan is nearly a kilo, etc etc. I'd really try and find the money for braided lines on the front too and good pads, DP HH or EBC HH are good. Then just basic stuff to make sure its going to always start and finish - decent battery (go for a quality scooter one if you can, I saved 2.3kg just on that alone!) make sure the cooling system is ok, all the basics. Nothing worse than all the work beforehand to get to a race meet only to falter on one small failure. Make sure the fuel pump is not on its last legs. To put the CBR front on you may need to grab a steering stem and clamps off an FJ or FK; I'm not sure if the 600 assy would fit in. The CBR fork legs are a lot shorter too, so that drops the front, which helps steering but loses some clearance, hence a secondary benefit of sorting the front suspension is to keep it off the deck. You'd be able to run the CBR clip-ons aswell which, while raised, are still lower than the VFR stockers, or chuck KR1-s ones on or similar. A quick action throttle is a really good idea, I think something off an XR650 or the like could be picked up cheaply from a wreckers. I'm from Fife, been here a long time though. I used to go to Knockhill when it first opened, I found some old programs the other day from 1980! I learned to ride on a TY80 in the pits and the car park. I'm on a Yamaha forum and there is a guy there with a yellow FZ750 who's doing the same series at East Fortune, maybe you have or will see him around. I'm more than happy to field anything you want to ask about running these things, as far as I know there are only 3 running in Oz plus a highly modded one that's parked up, I'm sure there must be a lot more over there though; anybody else on the forum been racing early VFR's?? I'd love to find some race bits myself, there's not much out here I can find so far.

The Racketeer
01-11-2010, 00:41
Thank you Jason for that quality info there, superb mate! cheers! A little info on my bike, she is just shy of 50,000 on the clock, horrendous gear case/scissor gear rattle, huge flat spot around 8000rpm, everything standard, exhaust is a 4,2,1 Then a single ART can. She's in tip top condition otherwise. Coolant system components all working fine, new fuild, coolant temp sender checked and fine, pump in good working order, new discs, EBC pads, new caliper seals, new fluid, braided hoses, clutch i'd say is a bit iffy, quite a far biting point. Finances dictate that i'll be running the bike as it stands right now, however i'd like to up the BHP a little if I can, (dont think there's any point in changing the gearing until i have riden the track) because there are FZR1000's and the likes in the class and as you will know East fortune has a few long straights. Talking to our local dyno guy recently he said my bike will be lucky to be putting out 80bhp. (He claims to have put a few VFR's on the dyno and thats the kind of figure that seems to be the norm for that age) However i know the old girl really does whip a few of the big modern bikes arses out on the road, also i feel really confident in the twisties and on the brakes, so fuck it i'm gonnae go for it next year. Bought a van last week, just need a spare set of rims, disks, sprockets, tyre warmers, wets, dry's, a caravan, spare levers, foot rests the list seems to go on and on and on! :} What size of jets do you use? do you use an air filter or just the gauze and grease?

JasonL
01-11-2010, 02:38
My mate has been racing a basically stock FG and I think his Dyno figure was about 86. Problem with Dyno's is, they vary wildly. While my bike was still on the road it dyno'ed at 97 rear wheel (megacycle can, K&N filter and jets). After putting a full Yoshi system on it and doing clearances etc, a different Dyno read 90 !! Riding it, it definitely had maybe 4-5 more bhp than before. Another racing pal has an FJ aswell, and his, stock but with home-made cans, no airfilter and running avgas put out 104 at the back wheel. The later FJ/K were pretty much the most powerful of all the VFR's, with bigger carbs, valves and some subtle changes over the FG/H. Does sound like yours is a fair bit down on power, I'd still expect a healthy stocker FG to be closer to 90. To tell the truth, I don't know what jets mine has, I've never done them, it came with K&N's in it. The Dyno gas analysis has it pretty close, maybe a bit rich. My mate with the other FJ I'm pretty sure put in 130's maybe even 140's for his 104rwbhp dyno run.

I've always run the stock airbox but I'm told they're pretty restrictive and taking off the top and just running the gauze is worth a few BHP. So too is taking out the scissor/lash gears if you can! The clutches on these are pretty good, I've never changed the plates in 4 yrs of racing. Is it bled up with fresh fluid? Might be the slave cylinder weeping, bent actuating rod etc??

Gearing. Most of the tracks here are pretty short, for which I've run 15/43. Faster places I'd run 16/43 or 16/42. Or as my mate runs on his FJ, 17/48! If you can, even if its still 530, an alloy rear sprocket is much lighter. All these little things don't often make much difference on their own, but all add up. I'll try and put some pics up of these other VFR's later and one or two of mine in its various guises over the last few years.

When's the first race??

The Racketeer
01-11-2010, 19:24
The 1st race is the beginning of May, but i have to go and do my licence stuff at the track 2 weeks before. Applied to join the club, got my eye test done last week, will do the medical sometime soon, probably christmas time when i off work.

The clutch has new fluid and it bled up no probs around 6 months ago (5000 miles ago). I'm not aware if the slave cylinder is leaking or if the push rod is bent, however it will be getting a thorough going over this winter time.

Interesting to know that you can get different read outs from different dyno's, i did not know that!

I notice in the photo you uploaded that the top fairing/nose cone looks standard, have you simply removed the headlight and blanked the space off?? What have you done about the tail light?

mangocrazy
01-11-2010, 20:23
Hi chaps, this is all excellent stuff and very interesting. I've recently acquired a couple of FJ/FK motors for very little money and am thinking of having a good delve inside to see what potential there is for tuning. From what I recall back in the day, the word was that they weren't an easy (or cheap) motor to tune. I'm interested in how much extra horsepower removing the quietening gears will give you, plus any downsides to doing it. Any idea?

I'm also fairly sure there are some horses to be liberated in the airbox and exhaust area. Only trouble is that, for the exhaust at least, it's going to cost a fair bit to find out, which is not really the point of the game.

I've got a custom Ohlins shock on the back of mine with a ride height adjuster, but I can only jack it up so far before the linkage clouts the exhaust collector box. Do you junk this, or live with it? Also I've found I have to run quite a scarily high spring rate to stop the rear end from sagging (around 1400 lbs/in). What sort of spring rate are you running Jason? Btw, I'm around 11 1/2 stone, so not too much of a pie-eater... :d:

All the above is for a road bike, I hasten to add, not a racer. But I do enjoy messing about in a bid to pep the old girl up...

JasonL
02-11-2010, 03:40
Just another comment on Dynos - being ultimately a tuning tool, as long as you are using a reputable one then it serves its purpose as a before and after comparison plus of course the analysis and setting up in-between. Individual Dyno's often have different settings, or different ways to measure / report bhp and torque...bit of a minefield!

Mango, my rear linkage also tops out on the rear pipes; I guess if you can back it off enough so it doesn't do it so readily but still provide enough ride height, then ok; otherwise might need to shift the collector box...not easy! Or whack a dent in it......?!! I must confess to not knowing my rear spring rate, I'm sure its written down somewhere, see if I can find it. I'm about 12 stone I think and we did have to go up on the stock spring. Lash gears - dunno about long term reliability but I think its ok, since all the 400 guys here take them out to get more power, which on those things is more critical - I'd say its good for 3 or 4bhp maybe more?

There is a guy out here with a heavily modded VFR, I've been picking his brains a bit - in modifying these things, I've picked up the following:

Yes, getting them to breathe better is a big step up, so airbox/jetting and exhaust open them up a fair bit.

Not a lot can be done with the cranks

head port and cams follow on from opening them up.

As soon as you start doing more than basic mods they will then need better cooling/radiators, valve springs, beefed up clutch etc (barnett plates ar the best it seems) Their ideal temp to run at is 77 degrees c.

The CDI box can me modded to up / remove the rev limiter.

This modded bike is also bored, 840 or so, its super quick and puts out maybe 125-130 at the rear wheel but has taken years of trial, error and frustration to do so!! And loads of cash.

I had a plastic fairing repair place do the front fairing and the tailpiece as per pics. It cost a bit but I really wanted to keep the look of the back tailight. They just bolted in a plate to the headlight mounts. When I first put it on the track I bodged up the headlight protector as the number plate! Here's a couple of pics of my bike when I first got it, as it is now and 2 other VFR's running - Rob Francis has the blue FG (he's since put F2 forks and wheels on iut so I'll ask him if he used the clamps etc or used FJ/K ones) and an FJ that Craig Ralls runs here, with an R6 rear wheel and I think a GSXR front end with Ducati wheel (or vice versa) and home made cans (sounds fantastic!)

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/P1020157.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/P1020156.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/P1020152.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/_MG_99801024x6512036K.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/_mg_6205.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/_mg_6221-qpr.jpg

JasonL
02-11-2010, 04:19
Forgot the early pics, this is the second or third time I raced it. Can't find the ones while it was still on the road, will keep looking. Then I put the white bodywork on it and different wheels, I think it looked best like this. I haven't been running the rest of the fairing because when I put the full system on it doesn't fit and I've just been too lazy to modify it. Also one on the sidestand besides Rob's VFR, gives an idea of the static ride height of mine - up quite a lot at the back now.



http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/160.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/IMG_7797.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/GetAttachment1.jpg

mangocrazy
02-11-2010, 19:39
Hi Jason, thanks for sharing those pics with us; they look absolutely great. It's splendid to see these old bikes being wanged around a racetrack.

Your comments on tuning these motors does sound familiar to me, but it's valuable information. I seem to recall that a few people started pinching bits off RC30s when they became available (valves, springs, radiators etc.), although RC30 bits were pricey back then and certainly haven't come down in price in the intervening years.

I've also heard of the 840cc conversion, but that again is for people with deep pockets (i.e. not me). I was very interested to see the bike with the dual silencer setup, as I used to have a setup very similar to that on my FK. FOrtunately when I chopped it in for an FT I kept the silencers and link pipes. They're going on the FJ I now have at some point in the not too distant future.

They sounded absolutely fantastic, by the way. 'Better than a Ferrari' was the usual comment. Anyway, thanks again for all the information; it's great to see these bikes being used in anger.

The Racketeer
03-11-2010, 23:01
As said above Jason, thank you for sharing that info and the pics. You certainly answered many questions i had, cheers mate!

(nae doot i'll be nipping yer heed wi mare as i get nearer D-day !!)

joemcd
04-11-2010, 06:42
Great thread :top:

mangocrazy
04-11-2010, 19:25
Mango, my rear linkage also tops out on the rear pipes; I guess if you can back it off enough so it doesn't do it so readily but still provide enough ride height, then ok; otherwise might need to shift the collector box...not easy! Or whack a dent in it......?!!
I'm thinking of trying to altogether remove the collector box and route pipe work either side of the linkage. If I can, that should give me greatly increased ride height adjustability. Haven't a clue what it will do to the linkage ratio, mind...
I must confess to not knowing my rear spring rate, I'm sure its written down somewhere, see if I can find it. I'm about 12 stone I think and we did have to go up on the stock spring.
I think standard is around 900lbs. I first went to 1100lbs and that was still too soft. Then my suspension bloke suggested I take a decent jump in spring rate and recommended 1400. Seems to work pretty good now.
Lash gears - dunno about long term reliability but I think its ok, since all the 400 guys here take them out to get more power, which on those things is more critical - I'd say its good for 3 or 4bhp maybe more?
I think I'm going to try that with one of the spare engines I have. Has to be worth a go. I think they're mainly there to reduce noise anyway.
There is a guy out here with a heavily modded VFR, I've been picking his brains a bit - in modifying these things, I've picked up the following:

Yes, getting them to breathe better is a big step up, so airbox/jetting and exhaust open them up a fair bit.

Not a lot can be done with the cranks

head port and cams follow on from opening them up.

As soon as you start doing more than basic mods they will then need better cooling/radiators, valve springs, beefed up clutch etc (barnett plates ar the best it seems) Their ideal temp to run at is 77 degrees c.

The CDI box can me modded to up / remove the rev limiter.

This modded bike is also bored, 840 or so, its super quick and puts out maybe 125-130 at the rear wheel but has taken years of trial, error and frustration to do so!! And loads of cash.

That's fascinating stuff... I can feel some airbox mods coming on, but where on earth do you get performance cams from for these old girls? Do you have to go down the regrind route?

Likewise radiators, valve springs etc? Or do you just try and get hold of RC30 stuff? If only I'd paid a bit more attention 15-20 years ago when these things were being discussed in magazines etc...

JasonL
04-11-2010, 22:45
Racketeer - braw, nae bother like, ken.

Mango - I don't think changing the ride height will change the linkage ratio. The VFR's do have a high ratio, 5 to 1 or the like, which means a very small movement in the shock equates to a large movement at the wheel, which makes it harder to tune to such fine increments at the shock. I checked the Ohlins spring that came off my shock, the number on it is 170-1093-69-UO whatever that means! Anyway we went up a couple of spring rates from this. I'm pretty sure you're right, the lash gears are merely sound deadening (Ducati dry clutch anyone??)

Cams....regrind is one option, out here a company called Tighe cams in Brisbane does a "Bathurst" grind for our bikes. Megacycle and Yoshimura I'm sure had listings for off the shelf cams at least a little while ago, you might be lucky and find some NOS still lying around. Plus there would have to be someone in the UK who could do them, somewhere....You could talk to a guy called Bernie Saunders who deals in rare HRC race bits and bikes, he might have some ideas don't have his number handy but google it, should come up. The other UK VFR thing I remember is a guy called Des..something, he raced an ex Merkel FG, he had a website called..Dewasa I think it was, google that too it should come up. He had some experiences with tuning and cams etc,

I guess with modding them, I reckon if you put a full system on, mild cams, airbox mods, jetting and even a mild port job, take the valve lash gear out, you'll gain maybe 8-10 bhp but may still be able to live with std cooling system and valve gear etc - I'm coming from a race point of view where the engines are under heavy load most of the time but I think for the most part on the road in the UK these mods wouldn't cause undue problems but then I'm not a mechanic so better get a 2nd and 3rd opinion!
I think its when you start upping the compression in particular that they generate a lot more heat and the cooling system suddenly becomes quite inadequate. Given that my motor internals are stock, I've raced it in 42 degree heat and it was ok - just. I've no thermo fan either. Its when you are on the slow down lap and back in the pits it starts to get close to the red zone. I'm pretty sure Cosworth did some VFR gear in the day too, but you'd be lucky to find any - even on Ebay not much comes up, but every now and again the odd thing pops up, usually in the US and UK, plus there is still a fair bit in Japan but getting it out can be hard. I'll be attempting some mods in the off-season so will keep you posted.

b4d80y
05-11-2010, 14:02
Very interesting with a great Manx GP write up for early racing VFR.....
http://www.desawa.co.uk/Frame2.htm

Evile
05-11-2010, 19:30
Definately ditch the collector, motad if you can, sandy bike spares if your a church mouse (inspect the inside of the collector pipes, number 3 on mine had a lot of overlap at the joint), and a nice straight through can.

Drill two 1" holes either side of the snorkel (Vwhich you have removed), in the airbox cover, K&N filter, if you must use your OEM filter cut out the grille with the circular holes (worth 2bhp).

Next some Factory Pro main jets and needles, not Dynojet, (which require modification of the sliders/diaphragms, have a nasty unique profile that locks you into their sets and IMO spoils the power curve). The Factry pro ones are bolt on, have adjustable needles and standard Keihlin profiles so can be used with OEM jets. I'd get one set of needles and +3 and +5 (133,135 that's for the FV, stock is 130) mains.

Dyno, dyno, dyno, every change. I'm now running 133 front and 135 back (rear cylinders are possibly detuned in some way??)with modded air-box and straight through can producing 8 BHP.

The USA guys are much more up on radical tuning, google "VFR discussion", and you'll be sticking super chargers and R1 front ends on your P&J in a trice.

Very interested in hearing about your 840cc bigbore, I think JZH has similar mod, Im currently torn between this and trying to butcher a Torocharger or bodge my own supercharger from a Volvo and a dentist drill motor :)

mangocrazy
05-11-2010, 22:31
I checked the Ohlins spring that came off my shock, the number on it is 170-1093-69-UO whatever that means! Anyway we went up a couple of spring rates from this.
From an Ohlins spring codes chart I found on the web, that should (might) be a spring with 150mm (6") free length, rated at 971 lbs/in or 17.32 kg/mm.

It says here...

Actually that sounds about right to me.

mangocrazy
07-11-2010, 14:17
Just a thought for any passing mod... wouldn't this be better off in the Classic VFRs section? We'll give it the attention and TLC it deserves there... :d:

Plonko
07-11-2010, 19:52
Just a thought for any passing mod... wouldn't this be better off in the Classic VFRs section? We'll give it the attention and TLC it deserves there... :d:

I started this thread and I don't even bother looking in there. :d:

mangocrazy
07-11-2010, 22:00
I started this thread and I don't even bother looking in there. :d:
Yeah, but you lost interest in it and neglected it for four years. Now people have started to take interest again you're trying to assert ownership... :d:

JasonL
07-11-2010, 22:52
I was hoping it might inspire him to get that project out on a track!

Probably should move this to the Classic VFR section?

mart3442
08-11-2010, 12:58
Ron Haslam making a good showing in the Transatlantic Trophy all those year ago on a std. one against all sorts of race preped stuff, admittedly in the wet.


Have you read Haslams review of the VFR1200? He talked about the Transatlantic. The first VFR750 blew up after he disabled the rev limiter, so he went to a main dealer an took another off the showroom floor. It was fitted with 250 tyres because that was all he had that would fit the rims.
He creamed everyone in the wet.
"Then it was dry and I was at the back!" He says he's incredibly proud of that Transatlantic race.

I for one would be very interested to see you put an FG onto that race series, you'd give some of the bigger stuff a run for its money.

Plonko
08-11-2010, 18:52
Yeah, but you lost interest in it and neglected it for four years. Now people have started to take interest again you're trying to assert ownership... :d:

FFS I can't believe this post, I'm not not trying to assert any ownership at all, that's ridiculous, I am taking an interest though and because other people are now taking interest (which is great and might even get me off my arse to do something with mine) questioning moving it to a section where fewer people view. Having said that, I guess it is the right place for it.

BruceVFR
08-11-2010, 19:27
Plonko,there are lots of smilies:d: all over this thread,just waiting to go Plonko Racing!

Go catch yourself a fish!;)

mangocrazy
08-11-2010, 19:33
FFS I can't believe this post, I'm not not trying to assert any ownership at all, that's ridiculous, I am taking an interest though and because other people are now taking interest (which is great and might even get me off my arse to do something with mine) questioning moving it to a section where fewer people view. Having said that, I guess it is the right place for it.
I always thought that use of the 'big cheesy grin' smiley indicated you weren't taking it seriously. I was only having a bit of a laugh, although I do think the Classic VFRs section is the right place for this thread.

As does Schtum, apparently... :d:

JasonL
10-11-2010, 22:13
Gentlemen, please! How about we get back to bikes?? Mango, I mentioned my VFR had RS250 rims, well looks like I'm now getting an RS250 aswell! Be a nice pair, that and the VFR, for 80's club racing.

mangocrazy
11-11-2010, 20:23
Gentlemen, please! How about we get back to bikes?? Mango, I mentioned my VFR had RS250 rims, well looks like I'm now getting an RS250 aswell! Be a nice pair, that and the VFR, for 80's club racing.
Now I'm very envious... :d: You'll have to post up a photo or three of the new acquisition...

ON a related topic, I followed the link someone kindly provided to Desawa, and sent an email off, more in hope than expectation. Bugger me if a few days later I didn't get a reply!

Apparently he's now sold the VFR "to a guy that now races it in Norway of all places in historic meetings, and loves it!" So the old girl is still doing what comes naturally, it seems...

Dez also basically reiterated what you said about getting more power out of the engines; inlet, exhaust, porting and lumpy cams if you can find them. Trouble is, most of the bits I need are now well over 20 years old, so it won't be easy, as I'm sure you've found. And getting stuff made up on a custom basis is very expensive. So I think it's back to scouring eBay...

JasonL
11-11-2010, 22:04
I've been looking for one for a while, its still in transit - see pic! I've also overextended the finances in doing so, may need to sell the FZR 1000 and just concentrate on the Hondas.

VFR engines - paradoxically, you'd probably be more likely to find an RC 30 motor with all the work done and ready to put in than anything RC24-wise. Any such RC30 motor would be a small fortune but you might end up spending that anyway, not to mention the time, to end up with the same result. I believe the RC30 motor is an almost straight fit, just a bracket or the like on the top engine mounts needed. For racing the 180 degree firing order of the RC24 counted against it, hence the RC30's 360 degree set-up. The early RC24's raced all had 360 degree set-ups anyway, done on a local level by guys like Ron Grant.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/RS_in_a_box_2.jpg

mangocrazy
13-11-2010, 21:34
That looks sweet; I bet you're counting the days to when it arrives...

Take your point about using an RC30 motor, as all the hard work has already been done. It's just that I prefer the sound of the RC24 180 degree crank. I know RC30s sound lovely, but I just love the howl of the RC24 compared to the flatter drone of the RC30. I know the crank layout of the RC30 is better for racing, but mine will probably only ever be used on the road or the occasional track day.

On a side note, I went to a classic bike show n the UK recently, and there were LOADS of 80s/90s 2-stroke racers there. You couldn't move for the smell of 2-stroke. I just wish I'd got hold of an RS or NSR a bit earlier, before prices started to climb. I also got a photo signed by Eddie Lawson, one of my major racing heroes... :d:

JasonL
14-11-2010, 10:58
Yes I would have to agree, the 180 degree motors sound the best.

I think you can still get an NSR or RS at a reasonable price, there's just fewer around and you have to look further afield / longer. Then again the AUD is at an all-time high so its made it a lot more feasible for me to get one this time. Should be here in 4-5 weeks...will need to radically change riding technique!

dickypalm
08-02-2011, 17:13
I have both but prefer the RC30 with no air filter

I am building a VFR 6x replica in the UK, I have already track day'd it with CBR wheels etc but the head gasket has gone so changing engine for an FK which mean I need to rewire the ignition box.

I can confirm std FG's put out 86hp and another 7hp with a Leon Moss - LEDAR exhaust but its very loud 110db at least.


http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://vfrworld.com/photos/data/2/86-vfr750f2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://vfrworld.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/1385/title/uk-vfr-with-race-exhaust/cat/all&usg=__g_t8uD_mBAYLVXDGRblGsWhOuCM=&h=292&w=432&sz=37&hl=en&start=0&sig2=P7PEfsQZmX96d3lb-PdZxA&zoom=1&tbnid=Wjgaq5cRk7lFOM:&tbnh=141&tbnw=216&ei=g3lRTYCPEcKxhQfD5eHMCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvfr%2B86%2Bracer%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%2 6rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26biw%3D1002%26bih%3D417%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=125&oei=g3lRTYCPEcKxhQfD5eHMCA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0&tx=122&ty=72

One of my 30's
https://picasaweb.google.com/dickypalm/RC30#5368339813011198594

mangocrazy
08-02-2011, 22:50
What's with all the HTC Wildfire bollocks on the Google link?

But your RC30 is surgically clean - lovely. And nice to see the photos of Yer Maun on the RVF750s again.

dickypalm
08-02-2011, 22:59
What is HTC?

I have a 30 shitter for everyday use. LOL

I prefer to ride very fast rather than bullshit!

Feel free to try and over take at any time, hehe.

Richard

Schtum
08-02-2011, 23:06
What is HTC?

It's a mobile phone company. For some reason, if you click on the view website for this image link for this pic -

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://vfrworld.com/photos/data/2/86-vfr750f2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://vfrworld.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/1385/title/uk-vfr-with-race-exhaust/cat/all&usg=__g_t8uD_mBAYLVXDGRblGsWhOuCM=&h=292&w=432&sz=37&hl=en&start=0&sig2=P7PEfsQZmX96d3lb-PdZxA&zoom=1&tbnid=Wjgaq5cRk7lFOM:&tbnh=141&tbnw=216&ei=g3lRTYCPEcKxhQfD5eHMCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvfr%2B86%2Bracer%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%2 6rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26biw%3D1002%26bih%3D417%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=125&oei=g3lRTYCPEcKxhQfD5eHMCA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0&tx=122&ty=72

it defaults to this page -

http://smartphonegalaxy.info/the-orange-san-francisco-offers-affordable-android.html

dickypalm
08-02-2011, 23:18
Thats very strange I have no idea, it was some pics of my vfr someone posted in USA.

I just received a swining arm from a guy in Austria who is building a 6x replica and its very short but wil try it once I have some adjusters made.

https://picasaweb.google.com/dickypalm/VFR6x


https://picasaweb.google.com/dickypalm/Racing

JasonL
09-02-2011, 09:39
Is that a HRC RC45 rear rim on the 30??

Like the old pics, great.

dickypalm
09-02-2011, 10:26
Its a magnesium 17 x 5.5 Marvic and 3.5 front, very light.

I really should know better at my age but I cant slow down :)

The race 30 was raced by Phil Nicholls in the early 90's Senior TT

It has a full Tony Scott engine with HRC self generating ignition and kit rads, 118hp on the dyno.
I checked the gearing as it was hitting the limiter (13k) on Park Straight at Cadwell Park, worked out to 148mph which is flipping fast going into park corner in the damp!


The road 30 makes about 112hp with a Micron and ITG dome filter.

dickypalm
09-02-2011, 10:39
Look at this swingarm I got from Austria, very short which will reduce the wheelbase but even more weight over the rear wheel, not ideal!

https://picasaweb.google.com/dickypalm/VFR6x#5571604878464114594

mangocrazy
09-02-2011, 20:28
I know it's very bling (and it IS very bling), but that swingarm is going to degrade the handling rather than improve it. VFRs are rear-biased weightwise, and your shiny new swingarm is simply going to accentuate that. The pivot/linkage mounting casting and box section ali is exactly the same as stock, except it's shorter. The fact that the arm is shorter will reduce swingarm flex to a degree, but I've never found that to be a problem with these bikes.

But the swingarm is very bling.

What really interests me is the Austrian guy's revised shock linkage and dog-bones, as shown in your picture gallery. Are those available, and if so where and how much?

dickypalm
14-02-2011, 16:52
Hi Jason,
Did you say that yours has a Factory Pro jet kit?
If so which kit?
I spoke to the importer who said one year is missing from the product list so not sure which to order.

I am fitting an FK motor and carbs but also have a set of worn FG carbs and a set of FL's which I dont know the history.

Idealy I will run without a filter but may have to mod the slides and airways to the diaphrams like the race RC30s to dampen the occillation.

https://picasaweb.google.com/dickypalm/RC30#5373645643322668242

My race 30 has HRC superbike slides and it carburates perfectly unlike my std 30 which has an ITG dome filter. I have tried all different jets and needle heights and still not right.

FYI all honda V4's should run about 2 sizes smaller jets on the rear due to the higher temp (yes I know its sound wrong but thats how they are)
Also RC30 carbs are essentially the same as FG carbs but with differnet tops and float bowls with larger bore fuel pipes as there is no fuel pump.

Richard

JasonL
14-02-2011, 22:47
Richard,

No it was a K&N jet kit came with the bike, I have never played with jetting so can't tell you what its running! Although I have now reached a preformance wall with the bike so I will now start fiddling with jetting etc.

I believe the FJ and FK bikes came with bigger carbs than the FG/H

mangocrazy
14-02-2011, 22:54
I believe the FJ and FK bikes came with bigger carbs than the FG/H
Yes, they did. I'd have to check in the workshop manual to give precise figures, but FJ/FK carb bores were bigger than FG/FH. Also FJ/FK valve sizes were bigger than FG/FH.

I've read good things about Factory Pro jet kits for VFRs, but the situation is complicated by the fact that the US didn't get VFR750s for the FJ/FK model years, they got VFR700s (home market, i.e. Harley-Davidson, protection by US Congress). FP's website isn't much help on this.

dickypalm
22-02-2011, 10:03
Just stripped the old FG (84000mile) engine and although it was knackered, the front cylinders were down to 120psi its very clean inside.

https://picasaweb.google.com/dickypalm/VFRStripDown


Carbs:
FG 34mm
Fk 36mm
The inlet tracts and valves are slighly larger on the FK

I also noticed the anti backlash gears were not doing anything on mine and a mate told me his was recalled at the time to fit new cams with better backlash springs in 86, no idea why I didnt hear from Honda then.


Cam gears are much wider on the FK although they only mesh across half of there width but probably add more rotating mass similar to an RC30 cam.

JasonL
28-02-2011, 01:00
As a quick update on my RC24 race bike, the off-season is nearly over and I'm behind on doing a few mods, however the current plan is to do the followingover the next 2-3 weeks:

remove stator / run total loss
remove starter and relay etc
New clutch friction/steel/springs (maybe Barnett)
Fully floating RS250 front discs
take airbox lid and filter out (keep gauze)
Race glass, inc rear cowl, de-lug rear subframe, remove rear guard etc
Remove rear sprocket carrier on RS250 rim (replace with spacer / bearing housing)
Fit 5" rear technomagensio rear rim (RS250 fitment) a bit lighter and wider than current wheel.

Will put some pics up sometime....I'm keen to see what difference the total loss makes viz-a-viz turn-in and engine acceleration.

mangocrazy
28-02-2011, 21:17
That little lot should shed a few pounds... How long will the sparks last on a fully-charged battery? And I imagine the intake will be nearly as loud as the exhaust! :d:

JasonL
28-02-2011, 22:18
Well, the other guys running total loss can get a day's racing on a charged battery, it depends on making sure there are no unwanted earths etc. I'm slightly worried by the fact the VFR has 4 coils, fuel pump etc but I do know of another VFR running total loss and its been ok.

I hope its not too loud, I don't like loud bikes all that much, even at the track and besides, there are enough of them already who ride up and down our road at night and wake our kids up. Probably the same guys on their pointless bling R1's who you can carve up at track days with glee!

mangocrazy
28-02-2011, 22:38
Now I think about it, sidecar guys running TZ700/750s back in the day used to do 3 laps of the Isle of Man on a total loss, battery only system and they never had any problems.

Agree about noise. It's tiring and it damages your hearing, besides being antisocial. Hopefully it won'r be too loud, but I remember riding my Ducati 888 on a trackday with no filter or airbox lid and I'd forgotten to put my earplugs in. I had to pull in after the sighting lap, it was so painful...

JasonL
16-03-2011, 11:24
Finally got my RS250, have started it but will give it a good going over before I ride it. 80bhp and 100kg anyone?? Can't wait.

In other news, took the starter motor and associated gears plus stator and windings off the VFR which all together weighed 5.35kg. Racing it this weekend so will see what it does in practice.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/P1030599.jpg

dickypalm
16-03-2011, 16:18
That's a beauty

mangocrazy
16-03-2011, 21:04
That's as sweet as a very sweet thing... Let us know how the total loss (and lack of weight) works.

JasonL
21-03-2011, 00:58
Thanks, it is indeed a very pretty bike. The two stroke nutters are telling me I'll never go back to 4 strokes once I've ridden it....surely not ? !

VFR mods. Raced on the weekend, I can safely say that running total loss makes quite a difference, most noticeably on turn in and holding a line. It is punchier off the bottom and combined with the new Barnett clutch means better starts. The engine does gather revs with more urgency but not markedly so. Engine braking is altered aswell. I didn't do the airbox mods yet as I want to gauge each change one by one where possible.

The track is a short one, just over a minute and I expect the changes to yield a second a lap. I hadn't ridden let alone raced for 4 months and it was hotter than expected, so was rusty and knackered. Still managed to shave 3/10 off previous best which augures well; with some race fitness back and a bit more intent, that second should materialise. Will stick some pics up if I see any.

dickypalm
21-03-2011, 07:34
Thats great to hear, good luck and keep us informed :)

JasonL
21-03-2011, 11:41
Pics of the rear Technomag rim and milled down carrier, and blanked off casing where the starter used to live.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/043.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/046.jpg

dickypalm
21-03-2011, 15:45
Remind me again, what is the rim width and tyre size?

JasonL
21-03-2011, 20:52
It's a 165/55 Dunlop on a 5"

dickypalm
21-03-2011, 21:43
Thanks.

What electrics/igniter box and rev counter are you using?

I cant get an FG rev counter to work with an FK igniter, however if I plug the FK rev counter in it reads double the actual revs, strange as the igniter and loom all came off the same donor bike. It runs lovely but very annoying.

Any one got any ideas?

JasonL
21-03-2011, 23:34
The electrics are mostly stock, it has an aftermarket regulator/rectifier (which I may not need now its total loss???) the CDI unit is std the tacho is off an NC24, as it was also 180 degree firing order and the wiring is almost identical, I haven't been able to get it to work so far but it may be a simple thing. As the pulse generators were placed differently on the FG/H to FJ/K, the earlier bikes picked up off the cams but the later ones are off the clutch gear, and there were two pick ups, not one, could that explain the change in revs displayed??

dickypalm
22-03-2011, 11:06
The electrics are mostly stock, it has an aftermarket regulator/rectifier (which I may not need now its total loss???) the CDI unit is std the tacho is off an NC24, as it was also 180 degree firing order and the wiring is almost identical, I haven't been able to get it to work so far but it may be a simple thing. As the pulse generators were placed differently on the FG/H to FJ/K, the earlier bikes picked up off the cams but the later ones are off the clutch gear, and there were two pick ups, not one, could that explain the change in revs displayed??

Its really all FK now, Igniter, loom, engine and there is only a single wire to the tacho.

1. with FG clocks the everything but the revcounter works

2. with FK clocks everything works but the revounter is wild, rev the engine and it shoots off the clock althought all the FK stuff came off the same bike and did this while it was still togther.


Yes the cam pulse generator is fitted to FG's but even if it was using that the signal would be half speed and therefore still register but lower than actual revs when on an FK.

I may try an RC30 revounter which uses 2 coils and idle sparks.

Appsy
22-03-2011, 19:41
Hi,

I have a vfr750 RC24 which I have turned into a race bike. I want to raise the back up a bit and want to know what shocks will fit. Someone said to me that an R6 shock would fit does anyone know if this is the case. If not what would fit.

here is a link to a pic of the bike it has a RC45 fairing so looks pretty good (well i would say that)

http://www.manxphotosonline.com/ARA-Jurby-Airfield-Racing-Photographs-20th-March-2011/slides/200311-273.html

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

Mark

joemcd
22-03-2011, 20:40
Hi,

I have a vfr750 RC24 which I have turned into a race bike. I want to raise the back up a bit and want to know what shocks will fit. Someone said to me that an R6 shock would fit does anyone know if this is the case. If not what would fit.

here is a link to a pic of the bike it has a RC45 fairing so looks pretty good (well i would say that)

http://www.manxphotosonline.com/ARA-Jurby-Airfield-Racing-Photographs-20th-March-2011/slides/200311-273.html

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

Mark

This may be of some help

http://www.bikersoracle.com/vfr/forum/showthread.php?t=112149

JasonL
22-03-2011, 22:44
Mark,

Very nice! It does look good, its not just your subjective imagination!

Apart from raising the back up, how much have you dropped the front?

If you go back through this thread (perhaps you have already) I have some posts re my race RC24 which I hope offer some guidance. What else have you had doen to yours so far and what other plans have you got for it??

Appsy
23-03-2011, 03:00
Mark,

Very nice! It does look good, its not just your subjective imagination!

Apart from raising the back up, how much have you dropped the front?

If you go back through this thread (perhaps you have already) I have some posts re my race RC24 which I hope offer some guidance. What else have you had doen to yours so far and what other plans have you got for it??


I have lowered the front end and put the bars below the top yoke to help get a better riding position. I have cut the rear sub frame down to take the RC45 seat unit and made additional brackets to make a good fit. Replaced the lines with braided and put a 120/70/17 tyre on the front. Apart from that the rest is stock.

I have not raised the back end as yet but this is the next project. Was thinking about going along the R6 shock route but need to know what changes need to be made first.

What shock are you running in yours?

JasonL
23-03-2011, 05:11
The shock in my bike is an original Ohlins for a late 80's GSXR750 which I've had revalved, harder spring and extended to get the ride height up.

Appsy
24-03-2011, 09:20
The shock in my bike is an original Ohlins for a late 80's GSXR750 which I've had revalved, harder spring and extended to get the ride height up.

Was it a straight swap or did you have to do some mods to it. Also did it improve the turn in ability?

JasonL
24-03-2011, 11:16
The bike came with the shock so I can't say if it was modified to fit, however getting the suspension professionally done was the single most effective thing I've done to the bike. The extended shaft / raised rear did help turn in.

kentpunkster
24-03-2011, 21:15
Have you read Haslams review of the VFR1200? He talked about the Transatlantic. The first VFR750 blew up after he disabled the rev limiter, so he went to a main dealer an took another off the showroom floor. It was fitted with 250 tyres because that was all he had that would fit the rims.
He creamed everyone in the wet.
"Then it was dry and I was at the back!" He says he's incredibly proud of that Transatlantic race.

I for one would be very interested to see you put an FG onto that race series, you'd give some of the bigger stuff a run for its money.

Everybody except Mr Swantz #34 that is?

The Racketeer
30-03-2011, 23:54
2 weeks ago I started to prepare my FG for the track, last saturday I Went to East Fortune and sat mt race licence, I was on track 6 times, the first 2 or 3 were at easy pace, following the Scottish superbike champion, then after lunch we had a free for all. I was mixing it up with R1's CBr's R6's etc etc, (ok getting humped by the R1's and half of the 600's) but my 1986 Fg kept in front of a shit load of modern injected 600's and I can assure you's she was a great ride

JasonL
01-04-2011, 10:41
Excellent! I had been wondering how your race bike efforts were getting on. What's next? Any pics?

The Racketeer
01-04-2011, 18:50
Unfortunately I cannot race until the 2nd meet of the season, I have a couple of pics of the bike being transformed to meet scrutineering but thats it i'm afraid. I cannot for the life of me get them uploaded, dont know why, maybe cause i'm a bit thick when it comes to pc stuff?

Schtum
01-04-2011, 19:19
I cannot for the life of me get them uploaded, dont know why, maybe cause i'm a bit thick when it comes to pc stuff?

Nothing so simple....;) It's a Sponsorship thing - attachments can be uploaded by Sponsors and Super Sponsors.

JasonL
14-04-2011, 12:14
Some pics from a recent round at Phillip Island


http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/IMG_1096.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/IMG_7062.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/IMG_6049.jpg

Appsy
14-04-2011, 14:39
What size tyres are you running?

The Racketeer
14-04-2011, 22:16
great pics Jason.

JasonL
15-04-2011, 01:31
Thanks,

Tyres:

Front Dunlop D211 slick 120/70 x 17 Soft
Rear Dunlop KR106 165/55 x 17 slick medium on a 5" rim

I've tried a few different tyres over time and find the these Dunlops are the best by some way, although they are also quite expensive.

dickypalm
15-04-2011, 13:05
Love the pictures Jason

Are you running the carb inlet trumpets as per FJ/FK?

The FG's dont have trumpets and nor do RC30's but since fitting the later motor and carbs fitted with the rubber inlet trumpets not sure I like it, the inlet noise is also very quiet.

dickypalm
15-04-2011, 13:14
As a quick update on my RC24 race bike, the off-season is nearly over and I'm behind on doing a few mods, however the current plan is to do the followingover the next 2-3 weeks:

remove stator / run total loss
remove starter and relay etc
New clutch friction/steel/springs (maybe Barnett)
Fully floating RS250 front discs
take airbox lid and filter out (keep gauze)
Race glass, inc rear cowl, de-lug rear subframe, remove rear guard etc
Remove rear sprocket carrier on RS250 rim (replace with spacer / bearing housing)
Fit 5" rear technomagensio rear rim (RS250 fitment) a bit lighter and wider than current wheel.

Will put some pics up sometime....I'm keen to see what difference the total loss makes viz-a-viz turn-in and engine acceleration.

What size jets are you running without an airfilter?

mangocrazy
15-04-2011, 18:53
Looks great Jason; must be wonderful to be able to race around Phillip Island - it's one of THE great race circuits.

deniski
19-04-2011, 02:49
This is just a great thread !
Well done all of you :)

JasonL
20-04-2011, 10:42
Dicky, I have not got as far as taking the filter out and lid off yet, I did remove the snorkel though which seemed to make a difference but not as much as the 124 octane leaded ELF I ran in it! I'm due to get it in for a race tune so I'll tell you what transpires jetting-wise then. It still has the trumpets in - are you suggesting a benefit by removing them?? What would it do?

Mango - yes the Island is something else, its so fast it takes a while to get your head around it, you feel a distinct lack of bottle compared to riding anywhere else! We're there again mid May.

dickypalm
20-04-2011, 11:07
The snorkel does make a difference I also noticed.

The trumpets are to increase the velocity at low to mid rpm ie. more mid range torque, thats why some engines produce more power with narrow inlet ports as there is a critical airflow speed required for efficient cylinder filling however at high rpm shorter inlets work better. The latest sports bikes have variable intlets to get the best of both worlds.

The thing which bothers me more with the VFR airbox is the closeness of the trumpet to the underside of the filter, doesnt look good to me.

Most of my experience is tuning Yamaha aircooled RD400's but same things govern gas velocity. I used filler to narrow parts of the transfers to get a better shape and direct flow across the piston tops, this works very well also.


I was out at Brands Hatch on Monday with the RC30 and the VFR which was about 4 seconds slower but was flying considering the RC is 118hp at the rear wheel.

dickypalm
20-04-2011, 22:21
VFR and the 30 at Brands on Monday

https://picasaweb.google.com/dickypalm/Brands1804

The viffer was flying.

arsey30
21-04-2011, 00:14
VFR and the 30 at Brands on Monday

https://picasaweb.google.com/dickypalm/Brands1804

The viffer was flying.

Only after your pit crew helped to fit the Ohlins shock.

Dave.

dickypalm
21-04-2011, 08:08
Only after your pit crew helped to fit the Ohlins shock.

Dave.

Thank you to Dave and Chris, my pit crew and senior RC30 owners for holding the VFR on the side stand while I changed shocks.


.............but where were the trolley dollies?

arsey30
21-04-2011, 08:38
Thank you to Dave and Chris, my pit crew and senior RC30 owners for holding the VFR on the side stand while I changed shocks.


.............but where were the trolley dollies?

The hospitality budget did not run to that I'm afraid :-)

Dave.

dickypalm
21-04-2011, 10:21
Hi Jason,
I'm taking out the rubber inlet trumpets at the weekend so will let you know how it runs, hopefully better. I also think its running a little rich jujing by fuel consumption on the road at 40mpg

JasonL
06-05-2011, 01:52
Dicky,

Did you run without the trumpets? Any thoughts??

dickypalm
06-05-2011, 16:43
Not yet, cant run without a gasket of some sort between carba and plenum chamber, other carbs are all different so need another set of belmouths to cut down,

Also found that one slide was not lifting because I had assembled it badly. Did a track day at Brands on 3 cylinders and still over took loads of bikes LOL

Much better now though.

The Racketeer
16-05-2011, 22:03
I'm about to purchase tyre warmers but i notice that all the ones advertised are for 17" rims, but my FG has 16" front and 18" rear, can you buy tyre warmers to fit my sizes, if so any ideas where I can but them?

JasonL
17-05-2011, 00:55
I really doubt anyone makes those sizes. You may find someone with a very very old set in good nick stuck away in their garage but I doubt it! However, for the rear should still be ok, because the radius of an 18" with what, a 160 on it? is not very different from a 190 / 55 so regular warmers should fit the back, will just be a bit too wide. The front will be more of an issue but since a lot of warmers need to be stretched round the tyre, you could simply put them on less tightly than normal - this will mean its not snug but should still transmit enough heat, or perhaps you could just overlap a bit??

The Racketeer
17-05-2011, 18:39
Yeah your right Jason, phoned a few places today and was told no! So it looks like i'll have to go with the standard size. cheers.

The Racketeer
01-06-2011, 18:46
A couple of photo's from a recent trackday.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/stubblethejailbird/IMG_6206.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/stubblethejailbird/IMG_6117.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/stubblethejailbird/IMG_6121.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/stubblethejailbird/IMG_2879.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/stubblethejailbird/IMG_2876.jpg

JasonL
02-06-2011, 02:18
Great stuff! Nice to see another VFR out there doing the do.

One thing I see, I'm sure you know, but the back is sitting down too much, this will affect all sorts of things. Getting the suspension sorted is THE biggest single thing I ever did for my bike.

The Racketeer
02-06-2011, 18:01
Yeah Jason I mind you telling me that the suspension was the single most important thing to change, however I have a budget of zero to spend on the bike, any money I that becomes available to spend will be spent on the entry fee's alone. (the wife and kids seem to be a never ending money pit) I have a shock on my CBR600F2 that i could maybe use but it looks just as fucked as the VFR one. On a slightly brighter note I lapped a second quicker on my VFR at Knockhill than I did on my old ZX7R (with 113bhp at the rear) and although she grounded her belly pan (made from an old VFr400 fairing cut down to make an oil catch tray as per SACU rules) she never missed a beat and gave a few of the modern bikes (thunder cats and CBR's) a run for their money. It happened on the last lap at the hairpin, think i was getting a bit too gallous. :}

Appsy
18-06-2011, 11:44
Well just an update. I have fitted the shock and all went well had to put 12.5n spring on the shock but it has made such a difference to the handling. Makes the old girl turn in very nicely. Decided to run with the Super corsair tyres Front 120/70/17 - SC1 Rear 160/60/17 - SC2 and all seams ok.

One question though is the fuel pump I think is starting to fail (power dropping a bit a top end ok at lower speeds) what other options are there. I have been told that an old steel CBR pump will fit has anyone done this? Or has anyone fitted a different pump.

below is a new pic of the bike

dickypalm
06-07-2011, 16:57
I'm at Mallory Park this weekend for Festival of 1000 Bikes, anyone else coming?

Taking the VFR and an RC30

JasonL
07-07-2011, 01:10
Dicky,

Have a good time then! Did you ever run the VFR without the trumpets??

I have mine lined up for some off-season work, will post up some updates in a month or so.

dickypalm
07-07-2011, 08:36
Thanks Jason,

Do you an email and will send some pics?

Slight change of plan on the carb front.........

I bought some RC30 carbs with HRC kit slides and airway mods which stops the slide occillation so will be fitting them instead but with no filter :)

dickypalm
11-07-2011, 14:56
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62078500@N05/5925512533/

dickypalm
13-07-2011, 13:22
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150709442935562.700866.803600561&l=0223718201

JasonL
30-01-2012, 03:03
Period 6 (New Era) was included for the first time at the Island Classic at Phillip Island last weekend, here's a pic of my FJ at pit exit, I spent a bit of time making it presentable, needs more bhp though!


http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/DSC_0639.jpg

dickypalm
30-01-2012, 08:46
That looks great!!!!!

saintrommel
30-01-2012, 19:17
Ya Lucky Dingo ! has anyone ever had an FG-FK ported (gas flowed)

they used to get great power improvements in the old days with a

little port work........:)

Nice work by the way....:beer:

deniski
30-01-2012, 20:03
Nice pic, looks great...and you look very happy under the helmet :)

And Dicky, your RC30 looks gorgeous !!! Always wanted to ride one of those but I have the little baby brother NC30 which is the best bike out here in the Alps. :}

dickypalm
31-01-2012, 08:08
Thanks but the FG is nicer to ride. The VFR is 28kg heavier and 25less horse power but I lap Brands Hatch only 4 seconds slower....strange but true.

Check out Robert Wittey's FG he has gas flowed it but he thinks it didnt make much difference. I think you must increase the compression and get some reground cams with a bit more overlap for any big increases in power.

The HRC 6x kit parts gave 127hp and the works motors 135hp back in 87

JasonL
14-02-2012, 22:17
Got some pics now of the bike on track at Phillip Island:


http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/A64H3248.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/A64H4175.jpg

dickypalm
15-02-2012, 08:07
That looks great, well done.

mangocrazy
15-02-2012, 21:12
That looks top banana, Jason. Great pics from a fantastic circuit. The old girl looks well tidy...

JasonL
16-02-2012, 23:14
Thanks - it's amazing what a lick of paint will do! It's slowly getting to the state that I imagined for it, but still a fair bit I'd like to do, would like to get some engine work done, bigger rad, different front end, 4 pots,few other bits and pieces. The 750 New Era class out here is just starting to get serious, and up until now my stocker could cut it, but we're already seeing A grade riders preparing hot OW01's etc so I have to decide whether to plunge some time and money in to stay competitive, be happy to just ride and not care about where I finish, or do something else entirely - might be time to get the 250 out!

dickypalm
17-02-2012, 16:04
Dont give it up because of OW01's or 30's....RC24's are much nicer to ride

Cheap option are 43mm forks from a 2004 CBR 600 are RWU and have rebound and compression damping, a little shorter but could make a stepped top yoke to gain a bit of length back. I have some if you want some measurements?

Another mod I noticed on some genuine back in the day race bodywork is the bottom fairing panels have been trimmed where the join so they fit closer to the engine and give more ground clearance.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/VFR/PA025064.jpg

shelley
17-02-2012, 17:16
When I saw the thrtead title I thought "Why bother, just go buy a ZX6..."

Now I get it fella, bloody outstanding job any chance of some videos?

JasonL
18-02-2012, 03:11
Dicky, yeah, I wouldn't give it up, I enjoy being the underdog too much!

Sure, if you can drop some CBR 43mm measurements down that'd be good guidance. One thing I am keen to do is find a set of triple clamps and stem that have less off-set. I know people have put RC30 front ends on. If I kept 41mm forks then possibly NSR or VFR400 maybe. Even RS250 if I can find some. With the later CBR stuff I'd have to watch eligibility - has to be of the period or visually indistinguishable.

Shelley..thanks - I don't have any clips of my own, but bits and pieces from others....I'm in the frame for the first lap from the back of a 1990 EXUP 1000 with a 1040 kit (so see the acceleration difference down the long front straight!!)

http://youtu.be/f-Lzi4GOjqo

This is the same race meet, I'm only in it for a few fleeting seconds around the 0.53 mark but sounds nice when its just gone out of frame. The rest of the clip is a good doco on the event as a whole:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VC60CrWu8Q

This was some club racing in Oct last year, I had a mate put a camera on the back of mine so some different views to and from the bike:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGoRqclzmfk&feature=channel

Clifford750
18-02-2012, 14:13
hi jason
like the bikes alot , i think the 180 degree crank engines sound better than the later 360 ones. the white bike no38 in pics what clocks have you got on it and were they easy to fit ?
I've got a 1990 fl i use for trackdays etc and want to fit just tacho and temp gauge instead of the massive ugly standard clocks . i have just purchased a set of nc24 clocks and would like to fit them although redline is a bit high. any tips would be greatly appreciated i'm not too good with electrics:h:
cheers charlie
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/clifford8515/Trackdays%201986%20to%20Present/200910_1462.jpg

k5 dave
18-02-2012, 14:16
That second photo is brill ;)

JasonL
18-02-2012, 17:30
Charlie,

Funnily enough I had NC24 clocks on mine as well, and also being not too good with electrics, never got the tach to work! They mounted up reasonably ok, and the wiring seemed straightforward...minor I'm sure but I never bothered to fix since the temp gauge worked and I pretty much know where its at on the power curve. What I do want to get is a set of shift lights, much more useful.

What's done to the FL? I have thought about racing one of these, basic frame, geometry etc better than the 24. Bit heavier though. Is that blue a factory colour, I've never seen before, looks great.

PS I only have the one bike, its just had a few different sets of bodywork and colour schemes over time.

dickypalm
18-02-2012, 19:28
On the 30 no3 and about 2mins 52 secs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3emXCisK7aU&feature=BFp&list=FLIa7pbnqLDI45686bUK16Fg

deniski
19-02-2012, 22:13
Wicked !!!

JasonL
19-02-2012, 22:36
Dicky,

Love it, and what a great range of interesting bikes going around, and along with a 30 with a number 3 on it, has made me needing to make a confession....I had the great fortune to ride the below bike a month ago on a track day at Phillip Island. It is an ex team Winfield bike, who ran Troy Corser and Anthony Gobert in the early 90's. Mal Campbell was to ride in at the Island Classic but it had some gremlins and didn't get out. I know the owner of the bike and he let me have a spin on it. He also has an RC45 which I got out on aswell. The 45 isn't a race bike but has been set up for track use, race glass, total loss, some kit parts etc. I have to say I liked the 45 a bit better, but compared to mine both felt unbelievably good!!

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/JasonLight_album/WinfieldRC30.jpg

mangocrazy
19-02-2012, 23:18
Joey Dunlop's TT number (3) - but not his colour scheme... I bet that was one hell of a buzz! We're all very envious over here...

Clifford750
20-02-2012, 10:25
jason
Your bloody lucky you are RC30 , RC45 and Philip Island next you will be telling us you have a NR750 in the garage :d: .
Watched the vids you posted very brave in first couple of laps , do you use tyre warmers ? what position did you finish in ? .
What are the 2 holes in the fairing near were the headlight should be ?
My Fl is heavy but so planted i don't mind the extra weight it just handles really good but ground clearance is limited exhaust and pegs ground out easily.
have slightly modified exhaust but still grounded out , looking to fit later 94 on system (alot neater and tucked in) when i can find one cheap.
i have recently modified the rear caliper bracket so i can turn the rear axle cam to the bottom of the swing arm to give more ground clearance and fitted an ohlins rear shock that i got for a bargain 25 from ebay. The front forks are standard FL non adjustable and don't seem to give any trouble but i'm not that into setting things up (too complicated) tend to just ride the wheels off what i have :)
keep us posted with your progress and keep the old ones going
charlie
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/clifford8515/Trackdays%201986%20to%20Present/img028-1.jpg
my first trackday not 1930,s was 1986 on my dads 1925 500cc tt douglas 3 speed hand change would top 90mph but even less ground clearance than the FL
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/clifford8515/Trackdays%201986%20to%20Present/200910_1616.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/clifford8515/Trackdays%201986%20to%20Present/200910_1260.jpg
now on the RC24 in 1995
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/clifford8515/img012.jpg

dickypalm
20-02-2012, 13:23
[QUOTE=JasonL;1359736]Dicky,

Love it, and what a great range of interesting bikes going around, and along with a 30 with a number 3 on it, has made me needing to make a confession....I had the great fortune to ride the below bike a month ago on a track day at Phillip Island. It is an ex team Winfield bike, who ran Troy Corser and Anthony Gobert in the early 90's. Mal Campbell was to ride in at the Island Classic but it had some gremlins and didn't get out. I know the owner of the bike and he let me have a spin on it. He also has an RC45 which I got out on aswell. The 45 isn't a race bike but has been set up for track use, race glass, total loss, some kit parts etc. I have to say I liked the 45 a bit better, but compared to mine both felt unbelievably good!!

Can I put this on FB "Racing Nostalgia"?

https://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/groups/162702797097725/

JasonL
21-02-2012, 13:02
Dicky,

Sure, put it on and appreciate you asking first - I did get your email just been lazy replying (and travelling with work)

JasonL
21-02-2012, 13:11
Charlie,

I reckon I was pretty lucky to ride those bikes at that track! Sadly no NR750 anywhere!

The holes in the fairing are air ducts which I haven't rigged up yet.

It was pretty hot at the island so you can push it quite hard from the first lap - I do use tyre warmers always too, even in hot weather. The races are pretty short so I need to make as good an opening lap as I can! That race I think I came 4th outright and 1st in class.

Sounds like the FL is a good track tool, yours looks pretty good - custom colours or from some other market??

What pipe was on your FG, can you remember?

Clifford750
21-02-2012, 14:43
jason
the fg had motad downpipes and collector with a carbon end can off a ducati 851 , it went ok really seemed lighter and thinner than my fl from what i remember but that was 16+ yrs ago . It did have an home made fork brace on but that was it for mods .
The fl has been resprayed what i think is either hornet blue or mg/rover trophy blue. Unfortunately don't have all the panels l/h mid panel , fr mudguard and seat cover are the original black colour . I do like the blue but purchased a WEST sticker kit for a fiver last year so may spray it black and white and use those if i ever save any money.
I've just booked 3 trackdays cadwell (my local circuit , mini nurburgring) mallory park and donnington GP circuit with classic bike trackdays this means only bikes upto 1995 will be on track so should be a good 3 days and i won't get blasted too much down the straights by modern plastic missiles :d:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/clifford8515/img022.jpg
pic of fg cadwell 1996 after a respray.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/clifford8515/Trackdays%201986%20to%20Present/PBTRACKDAYMAY24th2009010.jpg
a pic of my other FL also cadwell perfomance bikes trackday 2010

dickypalm
21-02-2012, 15:34
Hi Clifford,

Let me know the dates I might be able to get there on my VFR

Richard@rc30.org

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/OA0V2608.jpg

Clifford750
22-02-2012, 08:50
hi Richard
the dates for trackdays are ;
apr 27 cadwell park
jun 29 mallory park
aug 3 donnington
i think you could bring both rc24 and rc30 if you wanted , i asked about using 2 bikes because i'm currently rebuilding a mk3 rg250 and was gonna take that also they said no problems.
It will be good to see another VFR on track and compare it with mine if you wait for me :d:
cheers charlie

dickypalm
22-02-2012, 09:07
Will try to do the April trackday and would bring both bikes and possibly an TZ/RD430, that you wont catch till it blows up :)

Clifford750
22-02-2012, 10:30
Richard
Thats great cadwell is my local circuit so know it quite well , your RC30 will be one of the trickest bikes there i would think , your TZ/RD will be at home with the rest of the strokers that are going to be there TZR's KR250's NSR's Etc and no doubt will blow up but won't be alone :d: :d: :d:

dickypalm
22-02-2012, 10:50
I used to race earlystocks and Forgotten Era at Cadwell, Mallory etc. This is the Ahamay, taken almost 20 years ago and I still wear the same leathers :)


er sorry for soiling this site with other stuff.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/Racing/RichardrRacing6bmp.jpg


http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/Racing/MallorymaxingitatessesRD.jpg

dickypalm
22-02-2012, 11:08
I rode the 30 at last years classic day in October


http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/RYE_4591.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/RYE_5428.jpg

Clifford750
22-02-2012, 13:16
Nice pics of the RC30 looks small though like a 400 , is it alot different to the RC24 power wise ? The old Yam looks well used :) never ridden a big aircooled RD only a 200 and 125 years and years ago and an 350LC and KH250 :eek:

dickypalm
22-02-2012, 13:36
Too many years of riding 2 strokes, check out my clutch fingers in all photos LOL

Email me and swap numbers

richard@rc30.org

sallymander
26-02-2012, 11:39
Holy....!

The chain looks like it's about to fly off in that last photo! Never seen that before in a photograph, what's going on there?

mangocrazy
26-02-2012, 14:18
I think you'll find that's the brake hose. The chain looks perfectly fine to me...

sallymander
26-02-2012, 14:44
I think you'll find that's the brake hose. The chain looks perfectly fine to me...

Ah, that explains it then :}

Gvilleracer
28-02-2012, 03:59
It is very encouraging to find this very active thread.
My father and I recently rescued a neglected 86' from an owner who had let it sit for 5 years, under a lean-too attached to his barn, while his dog slowly covered it in dirt attempting to tunnel under the foundation. The PO had picked it up after it was abandoned in a self-storage facility with only 11k miles on it and completely original. He rode it once, dropped it mangling the left side lower and upper, and parked it never to give it another thought. Luckily, this fella was one of my dads co-workers and sold it to us for $300.

Our plan is to use this steed to join in the Historic Moto Gran Prix series here in the Eastern US. The budget is non-existent, and "FUN" is our main concern. The bike has cleaned up much better than expected and I will post some pics after some fiberglass repair and rattle can paint.

First order of mod, tires. We both love the look of the original 18/16 wheels and plan to keep them at all cost and love them for their short comings.

The Racketeer, or any of you guys running stock wheels, what tires are you using for track days or sporty street riding (sizes/brand/bias-rad/etc)?

P.S. Its nice to meet all of you, this thread has been influential in convincing my father the viffer could be fun in in HMGP.

dickypalm
28-02-2012, 09:28
NIce story thanks

If you can get tyres, unfortunately the only race tyres for 16 and 18" wheels are available from Avon and while very good they are crossplys and VERY expensive.

16" front ends tuck in without warning under hard braking and the small disks are interesting to say the least.

Good luck

Richard

JasonL
28-02-2012, 21:55
Welcome,

There are several options for the rear, Bridgestone do a 150 slick for example, there is a Dunlop....GPR70?? but fronts, yes may only be the Avon option nowadays. Anyway, good luck and keep us updated! When's the first race likely to be?

Gvilleracer
29-02-2012, 03:08
If all goes incredibly smooth it will be at Road Atlanta, April 27-29.

Well, if the race treads can not be had, what about the sport-touring offerings from Avon,Pirelli, and Bridgstone, namely the Battlaxe BT45V's, Pirelli Sport Demons, and Avon's Road-Riders? While I understand they pale in comparison to real race tires, our first few track days will be on stock everything. So I would think any modern rubber could keep the pace with stock power, suspension, and brakes. So what I would like to know is has anyone used one of these on track to see how they take the abuse?

See available specs below and offer your recommendation and reasoning please?

Pirelli Sport Demons:
Front: 120/80 - 16
Rear: 140/70 - 18 (largest rear offered in 18)
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/gvilleracer/sportdemon.jpg




Avon Roadriders:
Front: 110/90-16 or 120/80-16
Rear: 140/70-18 or 150/70-18
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/gvilleracer/rdrydr.jpg



Bridgestone Battlax BT-45V:
Front: 120/80-16
Rear: 140/70-18 or 140/80-18 or 150/70-18
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/gvilleracer/btx.jpg

dickypalm
29-02-2012, 10:09
Hi,

Avon is the oly real 16" race tyre option, I have used them and the stick like shit to a blanket, knee down on the wet!.

http://www.avonmotorsport.com/historic-tyres-range/motorcycle

Gvilleracer
01-03-2012, 01:11
Not ready to shell out for the real thing yet.
But, I did find this nice bias-ply Tyre test by Bike Magazine UK.
They used a GS500 and evaluated track and normal riding conditions.

http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php/Tire_Comparison

I was already leaning toward the Roadriders and I think this settled it for me. I have tried the BT-45s on other bikes and liked them; but, am just to curious about these.

Now, which size is best.
Avon Roadriders:
Front: 110/90-16 or 120/80-16
Rear: 140/70-18 or 150/70-18
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/gvilleracer/rdrydr.jpg

Hotblack_Desiato
01-03-2012, 15:58
Not ready to shell out for the real thing yet.
But, I did find this nice bias-ply Tyre test by Bike Magazine UK.
They used a GS500 and evaluated track and normal riding conditions.

http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php/Tire_Comparison

I was already leaning toward the Roadriders and I think this settled it for me. I have tried the BT-45s on other bikes and liked them; but, am just to curious about these.

Now, which size is best.
Avon Roadriders:
Front: 110/90-16 or 120/80-16
Rear: 140/70-18 or 150/70-18
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/gvilleracer/rdrydr.jpg

I've not been on a track with them but Roadriders transformed the every day grip and handling of my FK compared to the Bridgestone/Dunlop mix that was on it - I put the 150 on the back on the advice of many on here.

dickypalm
01-03-2012, 16:54
Scary.....I only use trackday tyres on the road now days.

BT45's no thanks, harsh and not very grippy.

Hotblack_Desiato
01-03-2012, 17:14
Scary.....I only use trackday tyres on the road now days.

BT45's no thanks, harsh and not very grippy.

If you were going to a track to hoon around on a standard rimmed FJ/K, what rubber would you want on those rims?
Just curious, as I am having my spare rims refurbished and thought I'd see if there's something better to put on them for dry sunny days rather than touring and commuting.

dickypalm
02-03-2012, 07:42
Avon Azaros are ok for road but not grippy

These are good for 16 inch wheels
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Avon-120-70x16-AM22-Front-Race-Tyre-New-/251006662724?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3a7129b844

Not tried this

CONTINENTAL CONTI SPORT ATTACK 110/70/17


Bridgstone motorcycle tyre 140/70 zr17 Battlax rear


BRIDGESTONE BT016 110/70/17 + 150/60/17 MOTORCYCLE TYRES

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRIDGESTONE-BT016-110-70-17-150-60-17-MOTORCYCLE-TYRES-/120640205085?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1c16b7711d

Hotblack_Desiato
02-03-2012, 11:47
The BT016s sound good - impressive review:
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/545/8290/Motorcycle-Article/Bridgestone-Battlax-BT-016-Tire-Comparison-Review.aspx

in my ignorance I wasn't aware there were any good radials available for these narrow rims. Eventually I'll get round to a CBR wheel upgrade - but not this year.

Gvilleracer
03-03-2012, 06:16
Those BT-016's do sound promising.

But, I am only seeing a 130 for the front, can we fit that much meat?

PS. Hondougie, what size front Roadrider did you choose?

Hotblack_Desiato
03-03-2012, 07:09
I have 110 and 150 Road riders, the BT016 is available in 110 70 17" I didn't check for a 16" though.

Gvilleracer
06-03-2012, 15:15
I'm thinking of trying the 140/70 rear.
Although it is wider than the stock 130/80 tire, its circumference is actually shorter, which will give slightly lower gearing without changing a sprocket.

Does anyone see any reason the 140/70's would have any I'll effects on mounting or handling?

dickypalm
06-03-2012, 15:37
It will handle with anything apart from Continental TKV11 these are frightening! I put one on when the bike was less than a year old and had to fit a sterring damper, nearly had me off a few times shaking its head.

May as well fit a 150/70 have fitted loads of these in the past, Pireli Diablo, Bridgestone BT012S etc

Gvilleracer
07-03-2012, 05:00
Are there really no negative effects from stepping up to that large of a rear tire?
I was all for the 150 rear; but, as my dad is also part owner of this project I am having a hard time convincing him that the Honda engineers didn't know what they were doing when they selected a 110/130 combo.

Hotblack_Desiato
07-03-2012, 08:52
There are experts on here who have been racing for many years and can give a track based experienced answer.
I think that even cross-ply tyre performance has advanced significantly in 25 yrs and there are some modern radials available too if your race rules allow. These tyres are all stronger and grippier than they were 25 yrs ago and a wider one will give you a bigger contact patch.
I had a Honda dealer fit 150/70 and 110/70 Road runners - I questioned them on allowable widths vs rim width. He recommended the Avons and said there would be no problem with the extra 20mm width.
They look fine on the rim, fit easily in the swingarm and have been stressed for many miles by 2-up touring (bike nearly double its weight) at speeds between 1/2 to 2/3 it's top speed without any signs of abnormal wear or tear.

dickypalm
07-03-2012, 08:58
Are there really no negative effects from stepping up to that large of a rear tire?
I was all for the 150 rear; but, as my dad is also part owner of this project I am having a hard time convincing him that the Honda engineers didn't know what they were doing when they selected a 110/130 combo.

None and fit a 120 to the front while you are at it.

Photo with original 18/16 FG wheels with 150/120 tyres

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/P9060585.jpg

FTM
07-03-2012, 19:06
Richard, I just got back from holiday and I've somehow lost/deleated your texts and number, any chance of texting me it again.
:beer: Tony.

And are those AM22 race tyres any good on the road, will they get up to temperature under fast road riding?

Gvilleracer
07-03-2012, 22:03
None and fit a 120 to the front while you are at it.

I notice the only 120 they offer for 16" rims is a universal front or rear tyre. Just wondering, would someone "in the know" about tyre tech explain what exactly they change in a tyre to make it front/rear/uni? Is there any braking performance lost or handling changed by not going with a front specific tyre?

dickypalm
08-03-2012, 09:49
Richard, I just got back from holiday and I've somehow lost/deleated your texts and number, any chance of texting me it again.
:beer: Tony.

And are those AM22 race tyres any good on the road, will they get up to temperature under fast road riding?

AM22 are great and I never used tyre warmers when racing on them, first corner straight in just run low preasures

mangocrazy
08-03-2012, 19:10
I notice the only 120 they offer for 16" rims is a universal front or rear tyre. Just wondering, would someone "in the know" about tyre tech explain what exactly they change in a tyre to make it front/rear/uni? Is there any braking performance lost or handling changed by not going with a front specific tyre?
I would really, REALLY avoid 'Universal' tyres - they will be unpleasant on the road and downright lethal for racing; in fact I doubt you'd get let on the track with them if the scrutineers were doing their job properly. Front and rear tyres have totally different jobs to perform and need a totally different design for each end.

Front tyres need to withstand all of the steering and most of the braking forces, while providing good feedback to the rider and lots of grip. Rear tyres have to cope with power delivery and must offer grip and longevity.

As you're running a 16" Front 18" Rear combo, the only game in town for racing purpose is Avon AM22. You've heard from Richard, who fully endorses them and has loads of experience with them. They may be expensive, but crash damage and broken bones are a lot more expensive.

dickypalm
08-03-2012, 21:05
Various forks and stuff

CB1000F Big One, RC45 and CBR600 04

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/DSCF6215.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/DSCF6228.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/DSCF6230.jpg

Original FG with FK engine
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/DSCF6217.jpg



THis will be the new race bike

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/DSCF6220.jpg

mangocrazy
08-03-2012, 22:22
Hi Richard,

Are you trying to corner the market in VFR tail sections? 4 is just plain greedy... :d:

And is it my imagination or does a set of CBF1000 Big One forks look remarkably like a set of RC30 forks?

dickypalm
08-03-2012, 22:51
Similar but they are same length as VFR forks and dont have the compression adjustment at the bottom

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff422/VFR750R_RC30/fork_3.jpg

You aint seen nothing, I have so much more body work

Complete FG dark blue inc tank,

VFR700 RWB Tank, and fairing sides,

Pearl White FG

Carbon race sets

I have a problem LOL!!!!!!!!!

artee
08-03-2012, 23:24
If you need to dispose of some I will be very interested, ;)
Especially forks for my fh.

joemcd
09-03-2012, 06:01
What diameter are the stanchions on the cbf1000 Richard.
Could be the answer to a very straightforward caliper upgrade for the fj/k if 41mm
Nice spares department:d:

dickypalm
09-03-2012, 08:45
CB1000F Big One and CBR600 04 are 43mm same dia as the kit forks.

I like the quick release looks more authentic.

CB1000F run 310dia discs

FTM
10-03-2012, 21:19
First time I've seen this picture of the 6x,

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l190/ftm1973/crbst_vfr750r-6x.gif

Here's the article, http://hondarc30.free.fr/crbst_1.html

JasonL
10-03-2012, 21:54
That's Geoff Johnson's IoM bike in the Julian Ryder V4 book. I hadn't seen those other pics of the Schubert bike with the fairing off, interesting!!

vfrCHAS
11-03-2012, 09:49
Here's the article, http://hondarc30.free.fr/crbst_1.html

Wow, that is a realy interesting site all about the RC30, manuals, fiches, piccies, everything.

Clifford750
16-03-2012, 19:51
hi guys
went down to my local wieghbridge today and weighed my fl trackbike with full tank of fuel and it came out at 240 KG:h: .
I was a bit shocked as i thought it would be 20 or 30 kg lighter as i've removed rear footrests , centre stand and mountings , is fitted with motad system (which has to be lighter than a standard one) , fitted later /smaller front footrests and hangers , hero blobs gone , rear passenger grab handles removed plus other small bits and pieces.
Any ideas how to reduce weight further will be much appreciated but as i use it on the road headlight etc will have to stay for now.
charlie :)

dickypalm
16-03-2012, 22:59
and 18ltr of fuel only weighs 12.7kg

Unfortunately FL's are fatties

FTM
17-03-2012, 09:29
Lithium/Iron batteries are a lot lighter. I don't know anyone who's used one but the internet reports look good.
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?242120-Lithium-Iron-Battery-Primer-(LiFePO4)
Bar end weights could go for track days.

b4d80y
17-03-2012, 14:52
Have been using lithium race batteries for a while now.
I am an official UK supplier for them from my shop here on the I.O.Man as i liked them so much and a few of my mates here were after one.
The price delivered for a race version-which is tiny at 565g-115x35x95mm the RB120010, comes in at 140. They come covered in the best ballistic CNC surround and are made in the UK!
Full factory backup - the manufacturer has allowed me to offer a VFR club discount at 20% discount. So our vat is paid for! (120) The next model up which would suit more road riding is also avaliable. I use the smallest avaliable. Look at racing batteries.co.uk for the pics. Any questions just mail me direct if you like.
My FL was amazing, to loose weight i changed everything, subframes the lot.
Less is more... I even chopped some of the FL's main frame to loose the rear subframe attachments and a kilo of ally.
A small 12v fuel warning lamp is easy to install, I have mounted the odd idiot light on a small sheet of carbon before, looks great, weights nothing.
All wiring diagrams are avaliable online. Again let us know if you want the correct wire colour, some of us know each one, ingrained in the head after 20 years of playing.

Clifford750
20-04-2012, 18:40
hi guys
a bit fed up with my fatty fl so i've just bought another honda classic , though not a VFR but something as near to an RC30 as i can get :d:
This SC30 :d: :d:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/clifford8515/Bikes%20Owned%20In%20The%20Past/SDC10091.jpg
I owned this a couple of years ago but sold it to get a 2 stroke Rg250 , just bought it back it was awesome round cadwell last time i rode it there
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/clifford8515/Bikes%20Owned%20In%20The%20Past/PBTRACKDAYMAY24th2009021.jpg

richard did you get the cadwell classic bike trackday booked?

dickypalm
20-04-2012, 19:15
Lovely...at least its got the quick release front wheel

popkat
17-11-2013, 23:06
Just found this thread, Thought I'd pull it back up. There's some good info if I turn one of mine into a race bike.



Gearing. Most of the tracks here are pretty short, for which I've run 15/43. Faster places I'd run 16/43 or 16/42. Or as my mate runs on his FJ, 17/48! If you can, even if its still 530, an alloy rear sprocket is much lighter. All these little things don't often make much difference on their own, but all add up. I'll try and put some pics up of these other VFR's later and one or two of mine in its various guises over the last few years.


Are you still on here JasonL ?
I believe standard gearing is 16/45 so your running close to standard with 15/43, I find that an odd gearing choice, I was trying to work out what would be best and was looking at between 15/45 and 15/47. That's assuming it'll pull full revs. On a CBR600 I raced back in the 90's It was geared for about 140-145 top speed (14/46 which was 1 down on the front and 3 up on the rear) this was good enough even on the fastest uk tracks like snetterton, that bike had 106hp at the wheel, it used all the revs which were up from standard with a kit ecu. back to the vfr i'm not sure on top speed as standard but would guess at about 140mph true but I bet it doesn't pull 11500 revs in top so if altering the gearing gets it revving then it'll retain the top speed. If i'm wrong here feel free to correct me ;)

Also did you ever get round to running without an air filter and what were the results ?
Cheers.

Steve Barker
18-11-2013, 13:32
Referring to Jupiter's post, a late great mate of mine (Dez Chand) bought the ex-Fred Merkel VFR off Bernie Saunders and raced it in 1998/9. Finished 16th in '98 Newcomers MGP after cruising round on last very wet lap-race shortened from 4 to 3- in the interests of survival! He also won the Forgotten Era Superstocks in '99 (I think). Sold it to a bloke from Scandinavia (no idea who). The bike had all sorts of fancy stuff in it - 360 degree crank, Megacycle cams etc etc. ISTR the cams were always a bugger, in fact one of the camshafts broke at the meeting after the 98 MGP (can't remember where) but if the Manx had been full distance it would have gone bang (all other things being equal) somewhere around Milntown on the last lap. Tragically Dez is no longer with us - he lost out to a skip wagon 2 years ago last Thursday. I'm still in touch with his wife and kids and a stronger, more courageous family would be hard to find. Starting to fill up now.........

JasonL
19-11-2013, 02:51
Didn't know Dez Shand passed away, that's terrible he helped me a bit when I first got mine underway.

Popkat - yes I'm still here but not very often as I sold the VFR some months ago. I'm not sure stock gearing was 16/45, more like 16/42 or 43 so 15/43 isn't so strange after all perhaps?? Whatever it was, it worked for me. I did run the bike without an airfilter, it helped. Couldn't put a BHP figure on it but jetted right it probably gave 2bhp ?? Sharpened up the response, too. I agree with your premise that shorter gearing may allow it to pull higher revs which then arrives at a similar top speed achieved at lower revs. Of more importance was how quickly it would reach that peak point.

dickypalm
19-11-2013, 12:59
Nor did I! We used to race together back in the 90's

Hotblack_Desiato
19-11-2013, 13:20
I believe standard gearing is 16/45 so your running close to standard with 15/43,

Just curious - will CRMC rules allow changing to same period 17" wheels (Mag alloys)?
If so, tyre profile and wheel circumference changes have much bigger impact than the <2% change in gearing from these sprocket combinations.

Changing my 17" back wheel from 150/70 tyre to 160/60 tyres gives double the gearing reduction (about 4%) - and I've noticed it on the road - it's noticeably accelerating better but it hits an annoying footpeg vibration resonance at 6.5k revs - or about 120 km/h cruising speed, so I am going to switch back to a 43 rear cog.

Steve Barker
19-11-2013, 13:29
Yes itwas a terrible shock when a former mutual work colleague at Jaguar sent me a text to say "he didn't make it into work today". I won't go into details but a skip wagon pulled out in front and that was it.......apparently the driver was over DD limit at about 7.45 am! I'd known Dez since about 1995 when he was a design contractor at Jag and of course talk soon turned to bikes (this was during my bikeless period which ran from 1977 to 2001). All the time we knew one another he was generous, helpful and encouraging (he viewed my FK when I bought it in 2001) and just a bit crazy!He decided to go racing in 97 on a Yam 350LC (with I believe some TZ bits inside) then got the VFR for 98. I went to a few meetings as hanger-on/bod/bloke who gets in the way and intended to pit crew for him at the 98 Manx but "domestic pressures" put paid to that. Dickypalm may recall Dez raced in Bandit and RSV Mille events after that. You'll be heartened to hear that his daughter has recently joined the fold on a 30mph-restricted "putt-putt" but apparently she's a natural. Genes and all that I suppose.

mangocrazy
19-11-2013, 20:09
I'm so sorry to hear that about Dez. I contacted him a while back about VFR-related stuff and a more helpful and friendly chap you couldn't wish to meet. That's terrible news. They do say that only the good die young...

popkat
19-11-2013, 22:45
Just curious - will CRMC rules allow changing to same period 17" wheels (Mag alloys)?
If so, tyre profile and wheel circumference changes have much bigger impact than the <2% change in gearing from these sprocket combinations.

Changing my 17" back wheel from 150/70 tyre to 160/60 tyres gives double the gearing reduction (about 4%) - and I've noticed it on the road - it's noticeably accelerating better but it hits an annoying footpeg vibration resonance at 6.5k revs - or about 120 km/h cruising speed, so I am going to switch back to a 43 rear cog.

If they let the vfr in I can only see it as production spec replicating the *"metzeler superstock" championship up to 1986. this will allow the FG/H but not later, as the biggest change to the bike was the wheels they won't let that happen.
*won't be metzeler tyres though, they don't make the tyres any more, it'll be Avon race tyres AM22 front 120/80/16 and AM23 rear 150/70/18 although there is a 130 option I think the 150 will work better, but will have the effect of reducing the rear sprocket size, I think 1 down on the front and 1 or 2 up on the back will be a good starting point.

Hotblack_Desiato
22-11-2013, 10:07
I am having a stainless system modified to allow fitment of other silencers. Partially so the ol gal isn't drowned out by the Termigionis in the tunnels of southern Europe :d: but mainly because I'd like to see if I can improve the mid-range breathing and save some weight.

Does anyone have any experience with Quill? Their acoustically tuned silencer described here (http://www.quillexhausts.com/technical.htm) looks interesting, should allow for a targeted improvement - but I wonder how sharp the transitions is from "quiet" to "straight through"?
The other thing I ilke the look of about Quill is that they put your bike on the dyno (http://www.quillexhausts.com/dyno.htm) for free if you buy an exhaust.

popkat
22-11-2013, 10:36
Quill used to make cans that were fully road legal (no removable baffle) and claim they gave race can performance, but with every other exhaust manufacturer making cans with removable baffles Quill gave in and their cans now feature this. As for acoustically tuned well that's just the sound and could be just a sales pitch. When talking absorbtion cans (which is what this is) then a can is a can and they will all pretty much perform the same, unless it has some strange restriction inside it, which it shouldn't.
So any race can will do, but as Quill will put your bike on the dyno for free it does sound like a good deal (as long as the can is not too expensive in the first place).

Hotblack_Desiato
22-11-2013, 10:49
Quill used to make cans that were fully road legal (no removable baffle) and claim they gave race can performance, but with every other exhaust manufacturer making cans with removable baffles Quill gave in and their cans now feature this. As for acoustically tuned well that's just the sound and could be just a sales pitch. When talking absorbtion cans (which is what this is) then a can is a can and they will all pretty much perform the same, unless it has some strange restriction inside it, which it shouldn't.
So any race can will do, but as Quill will put your bike on the dyno for free it does sound like a good deal (as long as the can is not too expensive in the first place).

As I read it, their technical description and sectional drawing of the T3 silencers shows a reactive design. I assume there is some absorption material in there too, to help make it road legal. If the gas flow path and effective length of the chamber does change with flowrate (static pressure) isn't that a reactive silencer?
Anyway, the proof of the pudding as they say... will come from a before & after dyno run.
I am having a local custom exhaust shop make a link pipe from a knackered old Motad 2-1.

What pipe size would you recommend to ensure the widest range of available slip on silencers for a bike this size?

popkat
22-11-2013, 11:34
Looking at their diagrams the pipes are just an absorbtion silencer with a removable baffle, there's nothing fancy in there and nothing different from any other absorbtion can. now they may well have played about with the length of the removable insert to gain the sound they want but that's all, as long as it's not too long it shouldn't noticeably effect power.

Example
In 2005 I had a gsxr1000k5, I got the official suszuki Yoshimura can with it, when I put it on I was disappointed as it was quieter than stock and made the bike noticeably less powerful. I removed the insert and the bike came alive, felt like it had a nitrous kick :} so I cut about an inch and a half off the length of the insert, cut some slots in the end and the bike was as powerfull as without the insert but had a really nice not too loud tone. So you CAN tune the insert for sound without effecting the power much, it probably was less powerful than without the insert altogether but not enough to notice on the road, I was happy with it.

I've just measured up 3 bikes with race cans, a VTR firestorm (which is for sale ;)) an old gsx1100 and an xj600, they all measure 51mm or just over where the link pipe goes into the can, so i'd say the cans are 52mm internal diameter, which is the most common size.

Hotblack_Desiato
22-11-2013, 17:53
Just had a long cold ride round the coast to see David Yeowart at Exhaust Craft.
He's done some very nice stainless and titanium zorsts for classics and he had a spare carbon can with 2.5" (63mm) ends lying around the workshop, which just happens to be the size of the std. Motad link pipe, so no need for a reducer, which makes the job easier and cheaper.
So, in a couple of weeks I'll be dropping the bike off to have a nice lightweight, removable/modifiable baffle zorst fitted.
If the workmanship is half as good as the bits I saw lying around the shop, I will be well pleased.

JasonL
31-01-2014, 07:18
and 18ltr of fuel only weighs 12.7kg

Unfortunately FL's are fatties

Dicky, two random FL questions.....you weighed the frame, swingarm and motor of the RC24, any idea what the same bits are for the FL??

2nd question....are the barrels the same? Or are the mount points different given the different frames ? I guess a secondary question off this would be can you swap heads over from FK etc to FL??

3rd question....will a VFR400 swingarm fit straight into an FL does anybody know???

sorry that's 3 1/2 questions

dickypalm
31-01-2014, 08:00
Dicky, two random FL questions.....you weighed the frame, swingarm and motor of the RC24, any idea what the same bits are for the FL??

2nd question....are the barrels the same? Or are the mount points different given the different frames ? I guess a secondary question off this would be can you swap heads over from FK etc to FL??

3rd question....will a VFR400 swingarm fit straight into an FL does anybody know???

sorry that's 3 1/2 questions

1. The engine is fractionally lighter in an FL due to the heads being smaller, the rest of the motor is very similar. The frame I dont know the weight of however I did weigh an RC24 frame and its 12kg. The swinging arm...Jon Johansen said he saved 5kg by fitting an R1 arm


2. The block is the same although the oilways are different as the rC24 are external. Probably could swap heads but would require some machining, The frame mounting points are from the heads so would be different places.

3. I think the 400 swingarm is quite narrow between the frame so could go in but I have not really looked

Richard Palmer

Hotblack_Desiato
31-01-2014, 10:51
Wen did they move the cam gears to the outside of the barrels? Was that Rc36 or the 800?


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pigugly
31-01-2014, 11:07
Wen did they move the cam gears to the outside of the barrels? Was that Rc36 or the 800?


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RC36 gears run centrally

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dickypalm
31-01-2014, 11:56
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=462468880561&set=a.449652930561.378979.803600561&type=3&theater

Jeff Johnson's 6x

JasonL
04-02-2014, 03:24
[quote=dickypalm;1461394]1. The engine is fractionally lighter in an FL due to the heads being smaller, the rest of the motor is very similar. The frame I dont know the weight of however I did weigh an RC24 frame and its 12kg. The swinging arm...Jon Johansen said he saved 5kg by fitting an R1 arm


2. The block is the same although the oilways are different as the rC24 are external. Probably could swap heads but would require some machining, The frame mounting points are from the heads so would be different places.




Thanks for that, I forgot about the oil lines. I just had a vague idea of building an FL race bike, I like the idea that the engine was lower and further forward, better geometry and better rear linkage ratio, despite the extra weight might still be good.....I realised I still had the early VFR hi comp Cosworth pistons but not sure they'd fit an FL due to narrower valve angle in the later bike.